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The Power of Kindness | MomStrong International Week 2 of 4 — 805

Have you ever walked through the woods a little bit chilly and felt the unexpected warmth from a different breeze? That is how our kindness touches the world around us. The fruit of kindness, when produced in us by the Holy Spirit, has such a tremendous impact—in a world of harsh, jagged edges, kindness is smooth. Join me as we dig into week two of the MSI Bible study on the Fruit of the Spirit!

Transcribed version of the podcast is below

Today’s Scripture Writing Challenge Verse

  • Romans 12:14-21

Resources Mentioned In Podcast

Scripture Mentioned in Podcast

  • Proverbs 19:22
  • Romans 2:4
  • Psalm 17
  • Psalm 23
  • Romans 12:10
  • Romans 12:16-21

Join us at MomStrong International for our newest Bible Study and Scripture Writing!

Submit your questions to MailBox Monday: podcast@thebusymom.com


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TRANSCRIPTION:

Hey everybody. This is Heidi St. John. Welcome to the Heidi St. John podcast. Today is Wednesday, August 14th, this is episode number 805 and we’re going to be digging into the MomStrong International study this week. The topic is kindness and how it can change a generation. 

Stick around,  I think you’re going to be encouraged

So I want to say happy birthday to my friend Jane Lambert. Jane is the author of Five In A Row and one of my most favorite people on the entire planet. So Jane, my friend. Happy Birthday. Wish I was there to hug you in person, but I will be there pretty soon because Jane and her hubby Steve live in Kansas City. I’m going to be traveling to Lee’s Summit, Missouri— just outside of Kansas City— for my women’s conference Faith that Speaks and that will be happening at Abundant Life Church on August the 24th. I hope you guys are going to come out and see me. I cannot wait to see what God is doing in your life and to spend the day with you. After that. I’ll be in Fredericksburg, Virginia on September 14th and then in my neck of the woods on October 11th and 12th in Vancouver, Washington— early bird tickets for that event end on September 2nd.

Before I get any farther today into it, I want to just tell you that I’m doing something very special in just a few days. On Monday the 19th of August, I’m going to be holding a live webinar called Homeschooling for Rookies. I get so many questions about homeschooling this time of the year, particularly for people who are just starting out—and so I’m going to be coming online and teaching homeschooling for rookies for you. You can find out more about that in the show notes. Feel free to reach out to me if you guys got questions for the podcast podcast@thebusymom.com. We’d love to hear from you. Also, I would love to hear from you via snail mail. You can reach out to me at Heidi St. John c/o Firmly Planted Family 11100 NE 34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682. 

 This is the MomStrong International Bible study week. A couple of things I want to tell you about the study. We’ve been studying the fruits of the Spirit all summer long here at MomStrong International. I really have a passion to encourage you to get into the Word of God and study it, so that you will be able to know it and be able to defend it.  We’re hearing from you, many, many of you who are studying with us and we are so thrilled. Also, it’s a wonderful way for you to support this ministry and to support the St. John Family. The Bible study is just $8 a month and for that $8 you are going to get a fantastic study. Obviously the Scripture Writing Challenge is free, but once you come into the subscription Bible Study, you’re going to get access to cursive Scripture Writing. You’re going to get access to a lot of other benefits that come along with being a part of the ministry here as a financial supporter.

So just $8 a month. Check it out MomStrongInternational.com.  I just want to thank you guys for studying God’s word with us. Speaking of the Word, we are now in the second week of our study. Those studies always start on the first Monday of every month. So this one started a little bit late because we didn’t have a Monday in August until we are a little bit into August, but we’re on the fruit of the Spirit— and week two we are really focusing on kindness. So before we jump into it, would you guys take a minute with me? Let’s come before the Lord in prayer. 

Lord Jesus, it is hard to be kind in the culture right now. Christians seem to be under attack in every area and it’s easy to become defensive, it’s easy to become angry, it’s easy to become bitter… and Lord, it’s actually hard to be kind sometimes. And so Lord, you tell us that kindness is a fruit of the Spirit. And Father, I pray that as I teach on this a little bit today, that You would just speak through me, that You would encourage my spirit. Lord, that you’d helped me to forget about the pipes and my house. It’s being torn up right now. Lord, that you would just encourage me, encourage our family, Lord, to be kind to each other. For every person that’s listening to this that recognizes that they are struggling to be kind. Lord, would you help us? Help us to know that it’s a fruit of the Spirit and to walk in right relationship with You and to experience the joy and the kindness that comes from the power of Your Spirit. We love you, Jesus. Thank you so much for what you’re doing here. In Jesus’ name. Amen.

So we’ve been talking about integrity, right? And integrity, all of us, not just little parts of us. If we’re going to be men and women of integrity, then that means every aspect of our lives need to be honoring to the Lord. So to be people of integrity is to be 100% in love with Jesus and 100% embracing of His ways. So becoming a person of integrity doesn’t have a halfway point. And there isn’t a distinction between who we are in private and in public when we’re people of integrity, but rather who we are to the world is a match with the core of us— the who we are in Jesus. So it is ourselves,  our very beings, embraced by and embracing the work of the Holy Spirit. This is where this topic of kindness comes in, because if you’ve ever walked through the woods in a little bit of a chill and felt an unexpected warmth from a different breeze, this is how our kindness touches the world around us.

The fruit of kindness, when produced in us by the Holy Spirit, has such a tremendous impact—in a world of harsh, jagged edges, kindness is smooth. It seems such a simple way to bless people with the love of Jesus…until we are rushed or worrying over the hospital bill denied by insurance ( I know how that feels) or feeling like that poke in the eye from our spouse was just too much.  Kindness refers to a gracious disposition toward others and it weaves through our integrity like the beautiful gold threads in a tapestry that subtly grab light. Integrity shows itself in kindness. When you are the same person at home behind the door as you are in public, then you are well on your way to being a person of integrity. 

Want to encourage you here at MomStrong International, part of what we’re doing is teaching you to be people of integrity. Because remember we’re saying all the time— you can’t pass on what you don’t possess. So regardless of where you are in your walk with the Lord, when you begin to know Him more, it’s going to show itself in the way that you behave. It’s going to show itself in a consistency of your behavior. It’s going to show itself in a consistency of your actions—because people will see that they’re motivated by your love for God rather than personal gain. And last month at MomStrong International, we studied gentleness. Remember, when we talked about the difference between gentleness, it’s often translated meekness, and I said—hey, this is not weakness. It gets misunderstood and miss translated it, but it’s not weakness. Gentleness, true meekness, is available strength that is under God’s control. It’s the ability to respond with kindness under provocation, even when you just want to blow your top. And this could be just people on Facebook. 

Something I have noticed lately, and I’m going to deviate just a little bit from the study for a minute, because I’m noticing other people, brothers and sisters in Christ, who because they have a political difference with another person—have decided to disassociate themselves from others— “we just cannot do it”. You know what I think that is? and I’m not talking about conservatives versus progressives or Democrats versus Republicans. I’m talking about Christians, okay. Christians who disassociate themselves from other Christians because of a political belief and are willing to say— I can’t hang with you anymore because I don’t agree with your political point of view. That is actually arrogance. It’s not kindness. And when were known for arrogance rather than kindness, we are not going to be able to get along with each other. We just aren’t. And that arrogance comes in and it says— I’m right, you’re wrong. And because I’m right and you disagree with me, I’m not going to talk to you anymore. I’m not going to work with you anymore. I’m not going to go to church with you. I’m going to keep my kids away from their grandparents, because their grandparents believe one way and we believe another. 

That is not how God would want us to behave. The Bible says we should be able to reason together, particularly as God’s people. There should be points that we can agree on—and where we don’t agree, we should be able to be kind. So how do we train ourselves and our kids to intrinsically practice kindness? Well, it’s not very easy in the culture right now because we war against our sin nature. The root of kindness is preferring another over yourself. It is servanthood.  

So oftentimes when we are being unkind, when we’re not being led by the Spirit, and I have been in this position many times in my life — my human inclination, my flesh says: you know what? Forget it. And just walk away. I’m going to say what I need to say. Drop the bomb on the floor, turn around, walk away. And the other person who I just dropped the bomb on is standing there and I’ve left them in a position of not being able to do anything because I just either ended the relationship or I ended the conversation. I didn’t say— Hey, I really care about you. Can we talk about this? And that is me not being kind. It’s a critical spirit. It has nothing to do with kindness. So when we stop preferring one another, when we stop preferring other people over ourselves, we have fallen into this and it is everywhere in the culture right now.

The sins of a critical spirit or selfishness will choke the Spirit’s growth of kindness in our hearts. Did you know that? I know it. It’s true because I see it all the time on Facebook and I’m telling you what— I have to come before the Lord a lot, especially when I get messages from people that are so hurtful and so hard on me. My first response in my spirit is that I want to defend myself. I want to be unkind right back to that person, but that is not the Spirit of God. 

Some will say that God is an angry God and not kind. God is wrathful against sin, yet in His tremendous kindness provided a way of salvation. Both wrath for sin and love for repentant sinners characterize Him and bring glory to Him. Sometimes it is hard to reconcile the God who swallowed up a tribe of people as a consequence for prideful rebellion (Numbers 16) with the God who sent Elijah to the widow at Zarephath during a drought to feed her and later raised her son from the dead.  

This is, in fact, the majesty and holiness of Almighty God: sin shall not stand, but rather will be punished, and in His inestimable kindness, He sends Himself to offer a perfect sacrifice so there is an escape from that punishment and a path to relationship with Him. Romans 2:4 says, “…do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance?” It is kindness. The Bible says that leads us to repentance. 

Are we being kind? We’re trying to win people over with our kindness because if we’re not, the Bible says we’re going to have a real hard time doing it. Salvation for every human who believes, in all time until the return of Christ, is no small feat. We easily forget that salvation was not earned or deserved, and He was so kind to make a way for us. He did it for His glory and He did it for love. So when we’re caught up in the maelstrom of everyday, and we forget to actually practice kindness, we are doing a disservice to our witness. This is part of the reason why we’re going to move from this particular topic, the fruit of the Spirit, into Ambassador for the month of September. Just to remind us that we are ambassadors for Jesus. We’re ambassadors for God. Let’s check out this passage for just a minute.

Proverbs 19:22 What is desirable in a man is his kindness, and it is better to be a poor man than a liar.

You see, God is teaching us over and over again that kindness is kind of a big deal, and in our passage on the fruit of the Spirit, the Greek word used for kindness is chrēstotēs. It means “benignity, tender concern, uprightness.”  It is kindness of heart and kindness of act. God does not ask of us things He is not doing Himself, and He displays this kindness He desires to grow in us. Let’s look at Paul’s letter to Titus where we see a beautiful summary of the breadth of the kindness of God in His salvation. Let’s look for a second to Romans 12:10 and Romans 12:16-21 because in here we’re learning what we are called to do no matter what our age. And this is going to help us to learn to exhibit kindness. 

In verse 10: Love one another deeply as brothers and sisters. Outdo one another in showing honor. 

So when you hear these verses, think about the verbs in those verses. The first one in verse 10 is Love. Love one another. And then the next verse is outdo one another. In other words, we should be out trying to outdo each other in our love and our kindness toward each other. What would happen if we laid down our pride and we just decided— I’m going to be kind, I’m going to listen to you with the goal of understanding.

All right, verse 16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud; instead, associate with the humble. Do not be wise in your own estimation. Verse 17 Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Give careful thought to do what is honorable in everyone’s eyes. Verse 18 If possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Verse 19 Friends, do not avenge yourselves; instead, leave room for God’s wrath, because it is written, “Vengeance belongs to me; I will repay,” says the Lord. Verse 20 But if your enemy is hungry, feed him. If he is thirsty, give him something to drink. For in so doing you will be heaping fiery coals on his head. And finally, verse 21 Do not be conquered by evil, but conquer evil with good. 

You guys see every time we choose kindness, we conquer evil every single time because God sees every action, ours and others, and He will convict, judge, or correct, or move. We don’t need to help Him. He will do it. So if we want our children to learn that they do not need to own the emotions and fixing all the things that have been done against them, we do it by example. So we want to teach our kids to pray about it and we want to work together to leave our struggles and our frustrations with other people in His capable hands. And this is so much better. This is so much better. 

As we look at kindness for the rest of this particular study for this week, we’re going to look in the Psalms 23, Psalm 17, and we’re going to be talking about how God shows kindness to us. God LOVES us. He IS kind, gentle, and protective. Because He loves us and is protective of us— He does something very unique:He disciplines us to keep us safe. This is what we do for our children and the way that we love our children is very similar to how God loves us. So I want to encourage you this week, have an arms wide open policy for loving others and practice being a place of refuge for a weary friend. Practice having kindness before you send that email that you’re going to regret. Take a step back. What would the Lord want you to do? How can you demonstrate kindness towards somebody else, right? God wants to help us to do that. He has designed to be listening to the Lord. We’re don’t have anything to lose. I’m always telling this to my kids: you’ve got nothing to lose by being kind. And one of the things that I’ve noticed in my own life, and I think I’ve said this on the podcast… so at the risk of repeating myself, I’ll say it again— of the things I regret in my life, they are almost always things that I have said that I can’t take back, words that came out of my mouth in the heat of the moment or when I was frustrated and angry. And I can’t take the, back. And it was a demonstration not only of my immaturity, but of my lack of kindness. 

I want you guys to think really carefully this week about how God wants us to behave. If we are His ambassadors, which we are, God wants us to be kind to others. God wants us to be kind. And so I hope that this week as we study kindness, and as you talk to your kids about it—we are going to be moved as adults, and moved as parents, and moved as teenagers, to be kind to the people around us. That kindness does not mean that we sacrifice our ability to speak the truth, but as followers of Jesus, we should be able to speak the truth in love. I think that the heart of God is breaking over the broken relationships between Christians that are littering the landscape right now.

And they are because of our pride, they are broken because of our unwillingness to work with each other. And because of that we are having a detrimental effect on the message of the Gospel. The enemy knows that if he can mess up the relationships of God’s people inside the church, he’ll have a whole lot easier time to get into the flock. If this is you, if you’re saying—man, I’m really struggling with kindness. I’m struggling to be kind to my kids. I’m struggling to be kind to my friends. I’m struggling to be kind on Facebook. Then take a step back and say— Lord, what do you want from me? How can I be kind? 

Sometimes that kindness is telling the truth. Sometimes kindness is saying—I don’t want to hurt your feelings, but here’s what’s going on. It’s a mercy to you to tell you the truth and then trust that God’s at work in it. But we want to be so careful when we speak to our brothers and sisters in Christ. We want to be so careful, so gentle ,so that when we leave that conversation, the words that we have said that echo in their head will be they are loved first by God and then by us, right? That is who God says we are. 

I’ve enjoyed having you guys on the podcast today. I want to just encourage you, if you haven’t signed up for my women’s conferences coming out and do that. We are going to be in Vancouver, Washington really soon. We are going to be in Fredericksburg, Virginia, and in Lee’s summit, Missouri in just about two weeks and I cannot wait to spend a little bit of time with you digging deeper into the word of God. In the meantime, stay faithful everybody, and I’ll see you back here on Friday.

Write to Heidi:
Heidi St. John
c/o Firmly Planted Family
11100 NE 34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682

Support this ministry by donating through E-giving. You can also send donations to: 1100 NE34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682

Rethinking Relationships: Older & Younger Women with Leslie Nunnery — 803

There is a real need for generational friendships in our culture today. Older women are instructed to mentor and teach younger women—younger women have fresh eyes and insight to offer older women! Tune in today and let’s rethink how we’re living in relationship with others!

Transcribed version of the podcast is below

Today’s Scripture Writing Challenge Verse

  • Luke 6:31-36

Resources Mentioned in Podcast

Scripture Mentioned in Podcast

  • 1 Kings 12
  • Titus 2

Join us at MomStrong International for our newest Bible Study and Scripture Writing!

Submit your questions to MailBox Monday: podcast@thebusymom.com


IMAGE

Leslie Nunnery is the co-founder of Teach Them Diligently Convention along with her husband David. She is the homeschool mother of four children who range in age from 12-19. God has given her a strong burden to minister to Christian families to help support, encourage and equip them to disciple their children, protect their marriages, and serve God in the ways He has planned for them. She is an advocate of home education with a strong focus on discipleship which is evidenced in her writings and the events her family produces. She is also heavily involved in mission endeavors through Worldwide Tentmakers, for which her husband serves as president and Teach Them Diligently supports.

Connect with the AUTHOR:


Don’t Miss These!


TRANSCRIPTION:

Hey everybody, this is Heidi St John. Welcome to the podcast. This is Meet My Friend Friday, and I will be having a repeat friend on the show with me today. Leslie Nunnery is here. She and her husband are the founders of the Teach Them Diligently Conference and she’s got a lot of encouragement for you. We are going to be talking a lot about relationships and mentoring and what that looks like in the culture today. 

Stick around, I think you’re going to be encouraged

So thanks everybody for tuning in today. As always, I want to remind you a little bit about what’s coming up at my neck of the woods so that if you’re in the area you can come out and say hello. Also want to tell you we are just starting a brand new study at MomStrong International. We’re continuing our study in the fruit of the spirit and this month we’re going to do a little bit of a combined focus. I think you’re really going to be encouraged. If you’re not studying the Word of God with us, I want to just encourage you to do that. We’ve got almost 13,000 members now at MomStrong International—and what we’re doing is trying to teach you how to teach your children, and to lead and mentor other women, which is why I’m so excited that Leslie is here with me today.

So without further ado, I just want to let you guys know that here at the podcast, one of the things I want to do is introduce you to voices in the culture who are pointing other men and women back to the truth of God’s Word, and our need to follow Jesus. And Leslie is a wonderful example of that. She and I have been friends for many years. I love what they’re doing. Leslie is the co-founder of the Teach Them Diligently Convention along with her husband David. She’s a homeschool mom of four kids and she recently has a graduate. Her kids range in age from 12 to 19, and the Lord has really given them a burden to minister to christian families and help support and encourage them. And so Leslie and I are going to be talking about what that looks like today. Leslie, my friend, welcome back to the show. 

[Leslie] Thank you so much. It’s awesome to be here. 

[Heidi] So you have just come off of the Teach Them Diligently extravaganza season. We’ve seen each other quite a bit around the country this last summer. For those listeners who are not familiar with Teach Them Diligently, can you talk a little bit for just a minute about the convention?—how it got started and how people can find out about it.

[Leslie] Sure. Teach Them Diligently is actually geared for homeschool families, although not exclusively homeschool families, but we seek to celebrate discipleship in homeschool families. We think that homeschooling is a great tool for discipleship, but homeschooling affects every area of your life. So we talk a lot about parenting, marriage, relationships, and how all of this works together—and really trying to equip families to point their children to Jesus and give them a foundation so that when they grow up, they’re going to in what they’ve learned and pass that on to the next generation. It’s our hope and prayer that God will use Teach Them Diligently to really strengthen His church through these families that were able to minister to.

[Heidi] You guys have done a fantastic job of really keeping the focus of Teach Them Diligently on discipleship. So you’re right, we do talk about homeschooling, but really you can homeschool your kids and miss it, right? We’ve seen that happen for many years. You and I have both been in the homeschool movement for a long time. And it is possible to bring your kids home from school and still miss the most important thing—which is to teach him how to be disciples.

[Leslie] Well, yeah. And it’s also possible to have your kids in a school and still disciple them. And that’s what’s so important— is that no matter where you are in life, no matter what you feel like God’s call is for your family right this minute, you can count on the fact that God has called you as a parent to teach them diligently. And so it is our goal to equip you no matter what— to see your role as mom and dad as elevated as God sees it, and to see your importance in passing that faith onto the next generation.

[Heidi] Yeah, it’s so important. You guys also run a membership site, right? What’s it called?

[Leslie] Teach Them Diligently 365. I’m pretty sure we feel about 582 days a year.

[Heidi] And over there you’ve just completed a series about rethinking relationships. And before you and I got on the show today, we were talking a little bit about the lack of relationship in the culture. And as you look around and you see motherhood from a different perspective, because your kids are beginning now to grow up and leave your home, and as you’re looking at the younger generation coming up— you and I have both observed the same thing, which is a real need for a mentorship and a real need for discipleship for the younger generation. Why are you so concerned about this next generation of mothers coming up?

[Leslie] I talk to so many moms both onsite, and then virtually throughout the year, who just feel lost. They feel ill equipped for what God has called them to do. I think that we’re seeing in this younger generation, and it’s so weird that I’m now old enough to talk about the younger generation— I can not think of myself that way….

[Heidi] I know!

[Leslie] I have to wrap my head around it…but we are seeing in these younger moms that had these precious younger children, a lot of them have an insecurity in what they’re doing. They don’t feel well equipped—whether they just didn’t see it modeled in their own family growing up or they just missed it somewhere along the way. As I’ve kind of backed up off of that, what’s really been of concern to me is I’m not seeing a whole lot of people stepping up, just physically, to fill those gaps.

So I talked to people who aren’t connected to older ladies in their church, and just trying to assess—what is driving that, where are we missing the boat? And I really have come to the conclusion that we’re missing the boat on both ends—older moms are not stepping up and I think that there’s a myriad of reasons why, ranging from our own insecurity, maybe a little bit of pride they should ask me, different things like that. And then the younger moms who are, are either unwilling to ask for help for whatever reason, or they’re asking the wrong people: they’re going on a the same plane. They’re going to people their own age to ask for help. Which there’s their conversations to have with people your own age. But to really get that deep insight and that mentorship, you’ve got to go beyond. 

I heard this when I was younger in counseling at a camp and it stuck with me so much—in order to lift you up, I have to be on higher ground. And you really need to find somebody who’s farther along in the journey that can pull you along, can tell you the good, the bad, and the ugly of what they’ve learned. Because a lot of times we learn by stubbing our toe, and we sure would like to see you not have to stub your toe the same way.

Right. Well, and there’s something to be said. I feel like the culture, as in by and large, rejects the wisdom and the advice of senior citizens. I think it sort of starts there and you and I are not in that place in our life. We’re not to that place in their life. I was talking to my mother-in-law about this a couple of weeks ago and she said she feels invisible. She said she’ll go places and she feels even at church she can feel invisible. Like here I’m 75 years old, I’ve gone through actually a whole lot of life. And because I don’t know the Internet very well, and because I’m not good at Facebook, and because blah, blah, blah, whatever it is, no one’s coming to me and they’re not asking.

And I started to think about that because I’m sort of the same way. I mean, we tend to look at our own generation. We’re so used to the internet. If you’ve got a problem, what do you do? You Google it, right? Although I would tell people, stop googling because Google is not your friend, or whatever. And it’s a whole another podcast. But really, we’re not looking to the older generation. And I think as a result, they’ve become sort of insecure and they’re not giving that wisdom anymore. They’re not offering it because they feel like it isn’t wanted. 

One of the things I love about what your heart is, is to see moms stop overthinking what it means to be a mentor and start looking at it more as relationship instead of— let me pass on my wisdom to you. How about we walk in relationship with each other. I kind of feel like because of the internet—I mean we can blame an awful lot of things on the internet, right? But the example of Paul who mentored Timothy. Because it was through Paul that Timothy became a Christian and then they became very good friends. Paul was older than Timothy, and he described their friendship in Philippians I think it’s chapter two, He described their friendship as being like that of a father and a son. He loved him. He called him his son who he loved and Paul noticed something in Timothy and invited him into and involved him in his work. Right from the beginning. They made decisions together. It’s amazing what God did through that relationship of Paul being older than Timothy. It wasn’t like this— here, let me help you. It was— here, I see something wonderful in you, let me bring you alongside me and let’s walk the scene together. Because Paul knew he was going to leave this earth before Timothy did.

[Leslie] Oh yeah. Well and to that overthinking point that you started with there, we look at how we parent our children and we want it to be natural. The teach them diligently verse which we go back to all the time in our ministry as you walk, as you talk— that makes sense to us with a parent child relationship because we’re doing life together. But I think that we really should look at our relationships with other ladies in the same way. I’ve found that some of the most natural, beneficial conversations have been sitting around the pool while their younger children are playing and my older kids are playing with them to watch them— and we can just talk to one another. It’s not a— sit at my feet, allow me to pontificate and tell you all of this great stuff.

It’s more just natural conversation and the questions that naturally arise we’re able to grow. And I learned from them. I always learned from the younger ladies that I’m talking to because I get insight into how they’re thinking. And with a lot of the people that I talked to that are younger than me, their zeal and they’re open mindedness to different ways of serving is a real challenge to me. And that’s another thing that I think as older moms are missing out on is just the freshness that this generation brains, and their willingness to jump into so many different things if they really see the mission behind it. So that natural conversant hanging out, those opportunities are so valuable. 

We were just in Israel, I think I had told you about that. We were in Israel as a family, back in May. And one of the things that I noticed that I had not noticed out of the context of being there, we were there with a few different Bible professors, who were kind of leading the tour. And those guys, my children were with me, and they would just walk alongside my kids from time to time and just point out— you know when Jesus said this? and they’re pointing at something specific— this is what he was really talking about. And really fleshing that out for them. And as I watched that, I thought, first of all, that’s how Jesus taught His disciples. They walked, they talked, he pointed at fig trees and different things along the road. And it was so very, very natural. But then I thought— how amazing that these guys are taking the time to pull myself children aside and walk with them. And that is what I so desperately long to see in our churches, in our families, just within this community of Christian women—walk alongside one another and talk and share and point out things that you’ve learned. And just let that natural conversation really grow the church.

[Heidi] Yeah. And we need to be looking to, hopefully…I mean the church has been stumbling in so many areas, you and I have talked about this hours on end. But the church is really struggling right now. They’re struggling with their identity, for one thing. And when you’re struggling with your identity, you can’t mentor other people until you know who you are in Christ, until you know exactly what you stand on. I think part of what we’re seeing happen with the younger generation of women is a failure of the church to get in there and say— hey, we’re gonna strengthen you as we ourselves are strengthened. But if we’re struggling, we don’t know who we are, we can’t. The church is grappling with basic issues right now. We’re grappling with things that we shouldn’t be grappling with. And I think falling through the cracks, it really is the younger generation. And you were talking a minute ago about seeking advice and giving counsel. 

I’m writing a book right now. And so I’ve been reading through 1st and 2nd Kings, and I love the Bible, but I really love the Old Testament in the sense that it’s history, right? So 1st and 2nd Kings, especially os like a record of history of God’s people that was given to us. And we see all these mistakes that we made. So exactly what you said before— that we will learn from it and not make the mistakes again. And you watch in 1 Kings 12 where Rehoboam makes a devastating decision right after he got council.

And I think what we’re learning there is not enough to get counsel if we consult the wrong people. We gotta be surrounding ourselves with women and men who love the Lord and who can encourage each other to grow in our relationships. And as you look at the young women around you, I love that your heart is just saying— hey, come over and let’s sit around the pool and let’s talk about life and let’s do life together. Because that’s so much of it, right? Telling the stories of God’s faithfulness in your life and when we struggled. Because you and I’ve been around enough to have struggled quite a bit and be able to look back and go—well that didn’t work. Tell me, like when these moms come to you and they open up about the struggles having either in marriage or in raising their children or their fear in the culture— whatever it is. Do you feel like also, it sounds like you do, that you’re growing, just like Paul and Timothy, you’re growing right along with them?

[Heidi] There is no question. Another is part of that series you alluded to earlier, I did a video on rethinking your rear view mirror. I think a lot of us that are older and have a bigger rear view mirror, we underestimate the value of that. And even as I am interacting with with these younger moms, the Lord will bring things to mind that He taught me that was often not fun to go through. It’s in those valleys that we get such a wealth of lessons and we realize just how faithful God really is. And when we think those situations and then have to put them back in service because somebody else now needs that, they need to hear how I made it through whatever it was— whether it be total lack of sleep because I had three babies, three and under, or whether it is working through a death of a child or something else that God has placed in your hand— God can use those. And all of a sudden when He puts those things into service again, they have a whole new meaning, you have a whole new appreciation for the goodness of God and His grace in allowing you to serve other people, even through that hurtful and hard experience. And He really will grow us older moms so much when we just open our hands and allow Him to use what He’s put in them.

[Heidi] Yeah. It’s so good. And to be honest, I think oftentimes mothers get to the end of homeschooling their kids or whatever… and if you’re Heidi St. John, you’ve been homeschooling since the dawn of time. I told Jay the other day, I think I’m 187 years old in homeschooling years. And you get to the end of it and part of us just wants to be done. We want to be done. We want to stay home, we want to start knitting or whatever it is that we do because we’re tired. But part of getting off the bench, which is what we talk about all the time here at the podcast, is to say— you’re not actually done until the Lord takes you home. Until the Lord says you’re off the field, you don’t bench yourself. So as long as I have breath, as long as my body is healthy and I can— actually, even when it’s not for goodness sake, look at Joni Eareckson Tada. Perfect example of somebody. She could have taken what happened to her and just use that as an excuse to get off the field. But instead she’s allowing God to use it. And so for the women, I think there’s a challenge here for young moms is to say— hey, don’t be afraid to walk up to a mom who’s been there and done that and say: Hey, can we get together for coffee? And then for older moms who are listening—invest in the lives of these younger women, they absolutely need it.

[Leslie] Absolutely. 

[Heidi] And we also need it. I think we can underestimate what you were saying—we also need it. And all through the Bible you see generations working together. I think one of the failures of the church church is we segregated everybody. So we’ve got the young moms meeting over here, the widows and the older moms have their Bible study on Tuesday morning when there’s no way that a younger moms could ever attend. And so maybe we can look at opportunities to see that culture inside the body of Christ change.

[Leslie] Yes, absolutely. It takes both sides being willing to open themselves up. For you younger moms, I can’t imagine a situation where if you walked up to an older mom and said— hey, I’d love to have coffee with you— that she would be offended by that. I mean honestly, she may not have thought of it, but I don’t think that she’s going to be offended. And for you older moms, it’s the same way. I think that we have put up these walls and some of it is just the insulation that we put around ourselves. Some of it, there may be a little bit of pride of not wanting to expose ourselves and our past or our questions. We all have to look like we have it all together. And when you’re talking to somebody on that level, it’s very apparent that neither old nor young have it all together.

God, is working in both of us. But we have to be willing to do that. We have to step outside of our comfort zone. God’s Word tells us in Titus 2 that the older women are supposed to be investing in the younger women. We’re even supposed to teach the younger women how to love their children. We have a privilege as moms to love our children in such a way that you have to be taught how to do it. That’s pretty incredible to me. I think that that just really shows how elevated our role as moms really is. That it takes somebody really walking alongside and showing you how to love your child on that level.

[Heidi] Yeah, it’s so good. And even when you’re tired, even when you think—I just don’t have anything else to give. The Lord is saying— Hey, walk with me and I’m going to help you. For the mom who’s tired and just thinks— man, I just don’t know if I have anything left to give. Or maybe you feel like you’re a failure. Or maybe your child walked away from the Lord, and so you’re the mother of a prodigal now— and you’re looking at some of these younger moms saying, I don’t have anything, I don’t have anything to offer. It’s not true because God does His best work in the deep. The person who’s most likely to be able to minister to the heart of a mom whose child is making bad decisions is not the mom who’s never experienced that, it’s the mom who’s walked through it and can say it’s all right, God’s never gonna leave you.

[Leslie] Yup. Amen.

[Heidi] So important. Leslie, you have an incredible ministry in a heart for moms. Where can moms find you guys online. 

[Leslie] Well, you can find us at TeachThemDiligently.net. We have a blog, we have a membership site there. But I would really encourage those that just want to dive deep— there’s an email series that I wrote that’s free that just walks you through 35 days of praying for your children or praying for your spouse. There’s two different ways that you can enter it. It just looks at how when you pray scripture for these roles that you’re playing, how God will work in your heart, and we’ll give you insight into the ones that you love and we’ll really improve your relationships within your family. So I would encourage people to go check that out. It’s just teach them TeachThemDiligently.net/pray and you can choose either of those series, but that also walks you through kind of a mentoring type exercise. Because I just talk like we’re sitting across the table at what God taught me through praying that way for 20 some odd years.

[Heidi] I love it. I love it. I love it. So for those of you want more information, you just heard Leslie say it. I’m going to link back to it in the show notes today.I know you guys are going to be blessed. Leslie, I love you. I love your heart. Thank you so much for coming on the show and, and blessing my listeners today.

[Leslie] Oh, you’re welcome. Thank you. And I love you too. Very grateful for your friendship.

[Heidi] Thank you. For more information about Teach Them Diligently go to the Heidi St. John podcast and click on the show notes. They are transcribed for you. For those of you who want more information about Mom Strong International, go to MomStrongInternational.com. We are in the middle of right now of launching a new summer Bible study for the month of August. I love God’s heart for us, it’s clear from the beginning of creation that He has designed us specifically for relationship—first our relationship with Him. And then for relationship with other people. We hope you guys have been encouraged to walk in that relationship today. Thanks for listening, everybody. Have a fantastic weekend and I’ll see you back here on Monday. 

Write to Heidi:
Heidi St. John
c/o Firmly Planted Family
11100 NE 34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682

Support this ministry by donating through E-giving. You can also send donations to: 1100 NE34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682

Everyday Integrity | MomStrong International Week 1 of 4 — 802

How do we become people of biblical integrity? How do we train our children to do the same? We can raise our kids to have honor and high morals, be reliable workers and kind friends? It starts with a commitment to living a life of integrity in everyday situations.  Download this month’s study at MomStrong International and join us!

Transcribed version of the podcast is below

Today’s Scripture Writing Challenge Verse

  • Acts 18:27-28

Resources Mentioned In Podcast

Join us at MomStrong International for our newest Bible Study and Scripture Writing!

Submit your questions to MailBox Monday: podcast@thebusymom.com


Don’t Miss These!


TRANSCRIPTION:

Hey everybody. This is Heidi St. John. Welcome to the Heidi St. John podcast. I am so glad that you’ve joined me. Today is Wednesday, August the 7th. This is episode number 802. We’re going to be talking a little bit about the issue of integrity and why it is so important that we have it as God’s people.

Stick around, I think you’re going to be encouraged.

So can you guys believe it is already the 7th of August? I can’t believe it. There’s so much going on right now and the culture is so much happening in the news. Summer’s almost over. We’re getting ready to go back to school. Moment of silence. 

Maybe not. I won’t start until after Labor Day around here, but I just want to encourage you as we look to a study for the month of August at MomStrong International. We’re going to be talking about integrity and why, as God’s people, we really need to have it if we’re going to be effective stewards of the gospel. 

A couple of things coming up: I wanted to let you guys know I will be in Kansas City at Abundant Life Church for my women’s event Faith that Speaks, this year’s theme is Miracle Worker: The Life Changing Power of Following Jesus. And if you haven’t checked it out yet, if you’re unfamiliar with my women’s conference, can I just encourage you? Ff you’re anywhere near Kansas City, Missouri, come on out. It is a day that will literally change your life. Bring your Bible, bring your friends, come planning to be encouraged. I also want to let you know that we are almost ready to start announcing the winners of the giveaway that we are doing to celebrate our 800th episode of the podcast. So if you guys listened on Monday, you heard my husband and I talking a little bit about how the show started and sort of where it’s going—it’s kind of our way of saying thank you. And so if you haven’t entered the giveaway, I want to just encourage you to do that. There’s three ways you can do it. We’re giving away three gift bundles and you can enter to win each one of them. You can enter on Instagram @HeidiStJohn, and all you really need to do is tag me and then talk about the podcast. You’ve got until Friday, just two more days. So get tagging and I’m going to announce that winner in particular on Instagram. 

The next way to enter is by going to iTunes. Go ahead and search for the Heidi St. John podcast and leave a review. If you’ve already done that, just take a screenshot and then share it on Instagram. And finally, MomStrong International: If you’re not a member over there, I want to just encourage you to come on over because not only have we reached a milestone with the podcast, we’ve topped 13,000 members at MomStrong International. So to enter for the third giveaway, just follow these steps: Go to MomStrongInternational.com and either create your free account or log in, click on the chat room, then type your reply to the question marked 800 giveaway. It’s that simple. So remember submissions are open through Friday, August 9th and then we will start announcing the winners. If you want to find out what’s in those bundles, go to Heidi St. john.com/podcast and then click on the show notes and you guys can see what we’re giving away. I think we’re going to be really stoked, so we’re happy about that. 

All right. Right now we are starting our first week of study for MomStrong International. I want to let you guys know how this works in case you’re not familiar. The way that these work is that we study a new topic and we start on the first Monday of every month. So this year, the 1st of August fell on a Thursday. So our study began on August 5th, and so every Wednesday I try to go over a little bit of what we’re talking about.

And listen you guys, you’ve heard me have guests on the show over and over and over again that keep pointing you back to walking with the Lord — so I want to just encourage you, if you haven’t become a member at MomStrong International it’s very easy to do and then you can download this study and you’re going to find that this is not milk-toast study. We are going to really encourage you and teach you how to study God’s Word for yourself. And so check it out at MomStrong International.com, it’s a great time for you to plan a fall study group. You guys could start now or you could start in September. You can apply to be a leader with MomStrong International. And really what our heart is, is to see you become equipped so that you can know the Word of God and defend it. Ken Ham said last Friday with me that one of the largest issues that we’re facing in the church today is a biblically illiterate church. A church who doesn’t know God’s Word and can’t defend it. We don’t know apologetics. And so that’s part of what we’re doing at MomStrong International. So check it out. Invite a friend. 

This month at MomStrong International we’re studying the issue of integrity. And oh my goodness, if ever there was a time for us to have integrity in the church— now is the time. So before we get going into that, would you guys take a moment? Let’s come before the Lord in prayer. 

Father, I thank You for Your Word. I thank You Lord, that You’ve said that Your Word is a lamp to our feet and a light to our path. And Lord, we are living in a dark world and the path seems really dark right now and we need Your light. And so Lord, as we talk a little bit about integrity, what it means, and why You want us to be men and women of integrity— I pray, Lord, that You’d speak through me. I pray, Lord, that I would be an instrument that would be used by You to encourage people to walk in right relationship with You. Lord, I pray that you would encourage me. I know Lord, that sometimes I can get discouraged and sometimes it’s tempting for me not to be in Your Word myself, Lord, and to think I can do it on my own. And so Lord, I pray that You would help me even right now, as I teach this study. Lord, I pray that You would be speaking to me too. We don’t need to hear from the world anymore. Father, we want to hear from you. We love you Lord Jesus. I pray that our lives would be examples of what it means to follow Jesus. And it’s in Your name I pray. Amen. 

All right you guys. So what comes to your mind when you hear the word integrity? I can think of things immediately that don’t come to my mind. I think it says a lot about my personality. I think immediately. I just think integrity. We could sure  use a bunch of that in the church right now, right? The church has been rocked with scandal lately, not the least of which has been Josh Harris, a heartbreaking situation. I have a lot of thoughts on that of which I’m not going to go into right now. But I think one of the things that we’re learning, and you’d think we’d have learned this before, but clearly we haven’t— is that we shouldn’t put our trust in people.

We should put our trust in the Lord. The Bible says that God does not change. There is no shifting shadow, the Lord does not change. The Bible says that the grass will wither and the flower will fade, but God’s Word will stand forever. And as men and women, we need to believe that what God said in His Word is absolutely true. And we need to be men and women of integrity. So rather than putting our trust in men, we put our trust in God— then we live out what we know to be true in His Word. Does that mean life’s gonna be easy? No. In fact, I would go out on a limb and say that I think life’s going to be pretty hard. But you know what? God gives us the strength to be men and women of integrity through the ups and downs.

We need it. Integrity in machinery is strength, reliability, and consistency. So we count on the integrity of a ship when we leave and go out into deep water, right? We count on the integrity of our car engines when we buckle our children in and drive across town. And so this month we’re going to continue our study in the fruit of the Spirit and we’re going to talk about how the Spirit is manifested in our attitudes. Love, kindness, and goodness— these impact the development of integrity in our lives. 

Warren Wiersbe teaches: “Integrity means that your life is whole, that your heart is not divided. Jesus said, ‘No one can serve two masters’ (Matthew 6:24). That’s integrity. Duplicity means trying to serve two masters. Our Lord also said that nobody can look in two directions at the same time. If your eye is single, then your body is full of light. But if your eye is double, watch out. The darkness is coming in (Matthew 6:22-23). If you look at the darkness and the light simultaneously, the darkness crowds out the light.” 

So how do we become people of integrity? How do we train our kids to become men and women of integrity? Often I hear from women who are discouraged and even frustrated trying to teach their children to be men and women of character in the culture right now, but as I’m always telling you guys—we can’t give our kids what we don’t have. If we want our children to be people of integrity, it starts with us. We can raise our kids to have honor and high morals. We can raise them to be reliable workers and kind friends. But Oswald Chambers identified something very important when he said: “Jesus Christ is not teaching ordinary integrity, but supernormal integrity, a likeness to our Father in heaven.

Kent Hughes shared some weighty information when he said  “…for the Christian, the most chilling fact is this: there is little statistical difference between the ethical practices of the religious and the nonreligious. Doug Sherman and William Hendricks, in their book Keeping Your Ethical Edge Sharp, note Gallup’s statistics that 43 percent of non-church attenders admit to pilfering work supplies, compared to 37 percent of attenders. Seventeen percent of the unchurched use the company phone for long-distance personal calls, but 13 percent of those who attend worship do likewise. But is this true of real Christians? we may ask. Sherman and Hendricks answer yes. The general ethical conduct of Christians varies only slightly from non-Christians, with grand exceptions, of course. Sadly, Christians are almost as likely as non-Christians to: falsify their income tax returns, to commit plagiarism, to bribe, to obtain a building permit saying “that’s the way the business is done”, to ignore construction specs, or illegally copy a computer program.  We steal time, commit phone theft, exaggerate about a product, and tell people what they want to hear.”

How do we reconcile these statistics with Jesus’ calling to be a city on a hill whose lampstand does not go out? Jesus declared, “You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden; nor does anyone light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on the lampstand, and it gives light to all who are in the house. Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven” (Matthew 5:14-16). No one lights a lamp and then covers it—why would we receive the goodness of Christ and then cover it by allowing a lack of integrity to permeate our lives?

So this month you guys, we’re going to study integrity for the whole month. This is a great month for you guys to bring your teens into the study with you, and  let’s allow the Holy Spirit to teach us about His fruit of kindness, love, and goodness, so that our integrity will shine through our lives and we will glorify Jesus! That’s really what it’s all about. We want to bring glory to God in everything that we do. You’ll notice as you download this study, we’re going to give you lots of opportunity to give feedback to write in the study this time, and we’re going to be just doing a little bit of self-examination. I wonder what would happen if we were more concerned with what we were doing in the privacy of our own homes, than we were about what other people were doing in the privacy of their own homes. I think our lives might look a little bit different, and in the Psalms we read two different versions that help us gain a good understanding of what it means to live a life of integrity.

So if we live a life of integrity, that means that we demonstrate integrity in the everyday. So listen to this from Psalm 15 “O LORD, who may abide in Your tent? Who may dwell on Your holy hill? 2 He who walks with integrity, and works righteousness, and speaks truth in his heart. 3 He does not slander with his tongue, nor does evil to his neighbor, nor takes up a reproach against his friend; 4 in whose eyes a reprobate is despised, but who honors those who fear the LORD; he swears to his own hurt and does not change; 5 he does not put out his money at interest, nor does he take a bribe against the innocent. He who does these things will never be shaken.” Psalm 15 NASB

 So first you see it in the NASB and now you’re going to hear it in the NLT.

“Who may worship in your sanctuary, LORD? Who may enter your presence on your holy hill? 2 Those who lead blameless lives and do what is right, speaking the truth from sincere hearts. 3 Those who refuse to gossip or harm their neighbors or speak evil of their friends. 4 Those who despise flagrant sinners, and honor the faithful followers of the LORD, and keep their promises even when it hurts. 5 Those who lend money without charging interest, and who cannot be bribed to lie about the innocent. Such people will stand firm forever.” Psalm 15 NLT

So when we abide in Christ, then the Bible tells us exactly what it’s supposed to look like. So I’m going to have you looking in Acts 8 with me this week. We’re going to be talking about what it means to have integrity at work at integrity and integrity in our ministry. And we’re going to be talking about what it means to have integrity with our friends and even with our children. Because guess what—your kids can tell when you’re not people have integrity. And as we parent, we need to do so with integrity in mind. But how do we train that into our kids? Pastor Adrian Rogers wrote  “A child delights in what he has. A youth delights in what he does. An adult delights in what he is. The more mature you are, the more you will desire to be something—not just to have something or to do something, but to be something. What do you desire to be today? Someone who is known for the way they dress? The deals they close? The house they live in? Or do you want others to know that you have a pure heart—a heart that is utterly devoted and surrendered to God. Matthew 5:8 says, ‘Blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.’”

So you guys, parents, we’ve got to learn to proactively train our children to move through the stages until they are grown and responding as adults who are pure in heart. So I’m going to ask you a question—Are your kids age-appropriately in one of these phases? If someone is lagging behind, pray for wisdom in how to help them move forward in maturing. We want to encourage our children. I’m going to send you back to Psalm 26 so that you can write down the four actions, or verbs, that David asks of the Lord. David’s going to show us how to become men and women of integrity and how to teach our children to do the same because it’s not enough for us to know it— we want to be able to pass it onto our children. You guys, integrity means a visible consistency in our hearts and our lives. 

The consistency that we’re talking about is exactly what Ken Ham and I were talking about last Friday— it’s grounded in the Word of God. When we know the Word of God, then we will also know what it means to live a life of integrity. Integrity is something that’s universally valued, but if our hearts aren’t rooted in God’s Word, if it’s not grounded in the gospel— then we’ve got nothing to anchor that integrity to. This is because true integrity comes from the heart of God. It comes from the one who made us. And since we’ve been made in His image, we reflect His integrity in our lives when we walk with Him. When we walk with Him, we glorify God and we lift up His reputation and His faithfulness. 

I opened up the podcast today by saying how thankful I was that the Word of God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. And as we talk a little bit about integrity this month, I’ve just been really burdened to pray for integrity among the leaders that I know. I’ve been thinking a lot about Josh Harris, what’s been going on on the news, and my heart is just breaking because the Harris family is from my neck of the woods. We love these guys and we know that they’re hurting right now. And I got to thinking— what is happening in the church that has made us so vulnerable? Two are falling away. What has made us gain a reputation of not being the men and women that we claim to be? And honestly you guys, when when things are hard, when the mortgage payments are coming in, when your kids are driving you crazy, when you’re dealing with things that you thought you would never have to deal with— it will show what was actually in your heart. When we decide to follow Jesus, it’s not enough to just say— we’re going to follow Jesus. We have to grow in the Lord, and that’s one of the reasons why I’m encouraging you so much to follow along with me at MomStrong International. 

We are putting an awful lot of time and resources into writing these studies for you, not for fun. We’re doing it to help you grow. We’re doing it so that we can be men and women of integrity and we can help our children become men and women of integrity. We cannot be men and women of integrity and we can not be young people who exhibit God’s heart— unless we truly know His Word. We want the Lord to help us in our character so that we can be true and honorable, so that our deeds can be right before the Lord, so that our hearts can be pure. We want to be lovely and gracious. So much of what’s happening around us right now, particularly when it comes to women, does not demonstrate a loving, gracious Spirit that comes from the Lord.

And we talk a little bit about this in the Bible study of this month and how our influence affects everyone around us. And our actions are speaking so much louder than our words, that the weightiness of our actions is breathtaking. And we talk a lot about Philippians 4:8 and what we are supposed to be thinking on, and what our hearts are supposed to be reflecting on. But I want to ask you today just to think for just a moment with me. Does your life reflect the gospel that we proclaim? Are we pointing people to Christ simply by who we are? Is our life marked by integrity? Are our friends around us see our actions that line up with the heart of Jesus that we’ve talked about, or are they seen as walk out a walk that doesn’t match the talk?

I want to encourage you to examine your own heart bravely. Invite the Lord. David said— Lord, search me, try me, see if there’s anything in my heart that doesn’t please you. I know when the Lord’s talking to me. I know there are issues, things I deal with, because I’m just like you guys, things I deal with in my life that I can just hear the Holy Spirit saying— Heidi, no, no, no, no, no. Come back. Your straying a little bit too far over there. Come back to me. Sometimes I choose to not listen. Sometimes I willfully ignore the Lord and we want to be very careful not to do that. We want to be like David and say— Lord, help us to examine our hearts. The Lord wants to change us from the inside out and when He does that, when the Lord of Heaven’s armies comes in, you guys—your life will never be the same and you will have the integrity of spirit and of strength and of action that God wants you to have.

I hope you guys had been encouraged by the podcast today. If you’re enjoying the podcast, please do us a favor— and actually you’re leaving reviews right now is going to get you entered for a drawing that we’re going to have on Friday. But I want to encourage you leave reviews for the podcast over at iTunes. We would love to hear from you. You can reach us podcast@thebusymom.com, or can write to us. We love you guys. I want to just encourage you, keep walking with the Lord, stay in His Word so that you can know it and rightly defend it. We love you guys. Thank you so much for listening. Stay faithful, and I’ll see you back here on Friday. 

Write to Heidi:
Heidi St. John
c/o Firmly Planted Family
11100 NE 34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682

Support this ministry by donating through E-giving. You can also send donations to: 1100 NE34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682

 

God is Faithful: An Interview with Jay St. John — 801

Have you ever wondered if God was listening to your prayers?  You’re not alone! Join me as I talk with my husband about the last seven years of producing this podcast. Miracles abound where God guides. He is faithful!

Transcribed version of the podcast is below

Today’s Scripture Writing Challenge Verse

  • Psalm 15:1-5

Join us at MomStrong International for our newest Bible Study and Scripture Writing!

Submit your questions to MailBox Monday: podcast@thebusymom.com


Don’t Miss These!


TRANSCRIPTION:

Hey everybody, this is Heidi St. John. Welcome to the Heidi St. John podcast. Today is Monday the 5th of August. This is episode number 801 and I have a very special guest on the show with me today. My husband is here and we’re going to reminisce a little bit about God’s faithfulness in our lives, particularly as it relates to the podcast, as we celebrated our 800th episode. 

Stick around, I know you’re going to be encouraged.

Alright, so you guys, my goodness— thank you so much for reaching out. You have been great about entering the giveaway that we’re doing. Remember I told you that we’re going to be doing a bundle giveaway this time and it’s very easy to enter. We want to say thank you. It’s just our way of celebrating and so we’re going to be giving some stuff away. If you go over to Instagram and give a shout out to the podcast, all you gotta do is tag me @HeidiStJohn. For each unique shout out, or story, or post, we will count that as an entry. So you’ve got until Friday to tag me. So Friday, August 9th— that’s when we’re gonna shut it down and that’s what we’re going to start picking the winners. Also, if you want to leave a review on iTunes, we will enter those also in the pool. All you gotta do is leave a review, take a screenshot of it and share it on Instagram. 

And then finally, MomStrong International, if you’re not already a member there, it’s really easy you guys. We just reached a milestone—we’re over 13,000 members at MomStrong International, so head on over there. Create your free account and login. Click on the chat room and then type in your reply to the question marked 800 Giveaway. That’s how simple it is and we’re going to be giving away bundles on August 9th, and submissions are open through that time. So celebrate with us. We are so excited about what God is doing. I’m going to be in Lee’s Summit, Missouri on the 24th of August for my women’s conference, Faith that Speaks. We’re going to be wrapping up this year’s theme: Miracle Worker, The Life Changing Power of Following Jesus. And I just want to encourage you, come out and join me and my family. Our whole family’s going to be there, so it’s going to be a wonderful time. We’re excited about that. 

Speaking of family, my favorite person in the history of people is here today at the show. My husband Jay St. John is here, and we’re going to be talking a little bit about God’s faithfulness, and kind of the ups and downs of following Jesus. Speaking of miracle workers, hey baby, welcome to the show. 

[Jay] Hey, it’s good to be here. 

[Heidi] So you drove quite a ways to be here today. 

[Jay] I think I brought you here. 

[Heidi] Yeah. You right. That’s probably true. 

[Heidi] Well, I’m glad that you’re here. You’ve been engineering the podcast for a really long time. 

[Jay] It has been awhile, yes.

[Heidi] So when did we start this thing anyway? 

[Jay] Was it 2014? 

[Heidi] I think so, yeah. In the fall or something like that. 

[Jay] Yeah.

[Heidi] And I was thinking about this the other day because we’ve just rounded 800 episodes, which is no joke. 

[Jay] It’s a couple of them, yeah.

[Heidi] That’s you behind the scenes engineering things and taking all my “ums” out and making me sound better than I really am—thanks for that. 

[Jay] Working my magic over here.  

[Heidi] Working your magic. And I’m trying to remember when we started—you know, we’ve had a lot of people say— why did you guys start a podcast? And I thought that’s a really great question. And I seem to recall just sort of getting ahead of the podcast curve, just thinking— I wonder if this would be a better way for me to communicate because I like speaking and you like all the engineering aspect of it. But where were we when we started?

[Jay] Well, I know that we had kind of dabbled with podcasting with our ministry for a bit. We’d started and stopped, and tried different things. And then when you decided to do a podcast for your ministry, we did it at US Digital in the radio station that’s there.

[Heidi] Yeah, that’s right. And they had a studio and made us feel super important.

[Jay] Yea, it was great! Felt so important in there.

[Heidi] I think when we started, I tried to do like five minute podcasts, and I just couldn’t do it.

[Jay] Yea, there’s just not enough time to get started, have something impactful to say,  and wrap it up. How do you do that in five minutes?

[Heidi] And I couldn’t do it. Some people do it, and I’m really impressed. Like I saw a guy doing the MiracleMinute. A friend of mine is a pastor and he does this thing called MiracleMinute and he shares this amazing biblical wisdom in a minute and every time he does it, I’m like—how do you do that man? I can’t do it. I can’t even do the intro in less than a minute. 

[Jay] We’ll use up so much to say. 

[Heidi] It’s really true. But I was thinking about God’s faithfulness to our family over the years. A lot of people ask us how we got into ministry together and what we’ve been doing. And I thought it might be worth it to just take a few minutes and talk about sort of how we got here, and where we’re going, and what the Lord’s doing. And you kind of got to take him back to Bible College because that’s where we met. You have always been interested in music. Were you always interested in ministry?

[Jay] Yeah, I don’t know. I mean when I was younger I wanted to go on the Air Force. So if that’s the ministry, I guess so.

[Heidi] Well, you know, Air Force and flying high…. no, actually it’s nothing, nothing like ministry except for the terrifying part of it. Maybe if you’re afraid of heights ministry might be the same thing.

[Jay] It was for sure when I was, um, just graduated from high school that I felt like I wanted me to go to Bible school and I wanted to serve the Lord in whatever way He wanted. And so I was in a band and brought all my music gear down to Multnomah.

[Heidi] Which is where I met you. 

[Jay] And then we met. We were doing ministry when we met. Both of us were involved with ministry of the church when we met, so we just haven’t stopped. 

[Heidi] No, and I think that we had an idea going into it of what it might be like. We thought— oh, we’ll work for a church, people will be so great, we can encourage people in their walk with the Lord. And it turns out ministry is pretty hard.

[Jay] Yeah. It really is. You really have a target on your back when you want to follow God. But honestly  in any place in your life where you choose to follow God, the enemy’s not going to be happy with that, and he’s going to do what he can to derail you and bring you down. We’ve experienced our share of that. 

[Heidi] Yeah, for sure. We just finished speaking in Phoenix and in Los Angeles a few weeks before that, talking about how God doesn’t do anything apart from a Kingdom purpose. And when He brings us together as a husband and wife, it’s because He’s doing something with us together that we couldn’t do necessarily apart. And really, everything that we’ve done has been a part of that. And so I was hoping today to sort of speak to that, just the faithfulness of God and what it takes to follow the passions that God has given. And one of the questions you get a lot when we’re out on the road is always—is this what you thought you’d be doing? 

[Jay] No, it’s not. 

[Heidi] Did you think you’d have seven kids?

[Jay] Nope. I did not think I’d have seven kids. I didn’t think I’d be married touch a beautiful lady either.

[Heidi] Oh my goodness, 20 points.

[Jay] Yeah. So a lot of things about my life are not what I thought, but that’s kind of the joy of following God—is letting Him do what He wants to do. And as He shapes you, and leads you, and uses you— it just takes you down to places that you probably don’t think you could or would have gone. 

And that’s part of the fun of it, I think. There’s a joy in it. People ask all the time— how do you do so many different things? And we always tell people— well, we’re doing what God asked us to do and He makes it happen somehow. There’s a joy that we find in doing it. And it definitely is beyond what we have the time for, the money for, the stamina for.

[Heidi] Yeah. Well, and it’s a yielding. It definitely has been for all of our married life. We’re comeing up on 30 years for goodness sake. 

[Jay] Has it been that long?

[Heidi] Yes. 

[Jay] No.

[Heidi] How long are you married, honey?

[Jay] Almost 30 years—not long enough.

[Heidi] I was waiting for you to say it— and not long enough— you’re old standby. And one of the things that that early on— and I’m hoping this is encouraging to couples that are listening to this today— is we really determined when we were very young, because I was 19 when we got married and you were 21, that we wanted to do something for the Lord together. We felt like we would be stronger together, that we would accomplish more together. And we had kind of a backward idea what that would look like. Because I think we thought it would be a lot more romantic than it actually is. Turns out it’s hard work. But it’s also grown us up in incredible ways. So talk to the couple with me, Jay, for just a minute, who’s thinking about their own unique strengths.  About where we started, looking at our unique strengths. And we were in a different season of life. So in 1989 we got married and went straight into ministry—we were just in a different season of life—no children. And then eventually we had seven children and eventually started homeschooling. And so, the Lord’s taken us through different seasons and it hasn’t always looked the same. 

[Jay] Yeah, that’s right. And when we started out it was more—I thought the band, that side of things, was going to grow pretty high.

[Heidi] Yea, you guys were pretty hot. I mean the band was pretty cool. I mean, come on.

[Jay] Thank you.  

[Heidi] And you looked good with your mullet. And you guys got to open for Petra. 

[Jay] Yeah. And many others too. 

[Heidi] Yeah, at the coliseum, it was pretty sweet. 

[Jay] Yeah. So I really thought that’s where things would go. And then I began working at the church where we met.

[Heidi] Yea, in Portland.

[Jay] And I became a worship pastor there and we were doing choir and worship team. You were doing the worship team word and we did plays.

[Heidi] And well I thought just whatever you are doing, I wanted to do it too. I wanted to help and I couldn’t be the director. So I thought — well, I’ll stand in the back with cue-cards. 

[Jay] Right. And as we went along and we were doing that, things were great. But overtime, especially moving to different churches where it just didn’t fit quite as well, and also all the kids we had—that concerned me a little bit, seeing how we weren’t working together quite as much. But then when the homeschooling happened, and the co-op started at our church—Wow! In my mind, that just took off and I was like— something is really unique here and God’s wired us to work together to do this in a pretty big way. 

[Heidi] And that was when you started praying about— Lord, do you want me to stop this full time job that I’m doing? — because you were pastoring full time— and step away and minister to homeschoolers. 

[Jay] Yeah. 

[Heidi] And that was no joke. 

[Jay] Yeah, no, it was a big faith step from my side of things. I felt like I was responsible for providing for my family and how can that happen when we’re just trusting the Lord? 

[Heidi] Yeah. 

[Jay] And you know what folks? I’ve learned He actually does take care of you when you follow Him.

[Heidi] It’s an amazing thing, and it only happens when you take that step of faith. And I remember one point in particular, this was a long time ago— I was doing devotions with the kids and you were at work and I had been reading through the Old Testament with our younger kids… actually, with our older kids. What am I saying? 

[Jay] They’re older now.

[Heidi] Yea, they’re older now. They’re all in their twenties now. But they were eight, 10, and 12. And we were talking about how the Lord set the 12 tribes of Israel apart. In particular He called the Levites. And I remember looking over at Skylar and he was raising his hand on the couch—not like I asked the kids to raise their hands—so it was kind of a weird thing to do. But he was stretching his arm way up in the air and was like— mom, mom, mom. And I said— Skylar, be quiet, we’re reading the Bible. And finally I was like— what Skylar? And he said— mom, we are the Levites, God has set us apart. We’re supposed to do the ministry part of it. And there was something that just happened in my heart. Do you remember this? 

[Jay] Oh yeah.

[Heidi] And I called you at work. I was just balling like— Jay, we’re the Levites. And that was kind of the beginning of us going to do this thing. 

[Jay] That was definitely in that time and we were wrestling with— should I step down from the church to pursue this full time— because we were so busy with it anyways. It was becoming a full time job anyhow. So, yeah. 

[Heidi] Well, and just seeing the signs, I think people sometimes wonder if —  when you are doing exactly what God wants you to do— then everything’s going to line up and you’re going to know, and God’s going to speak to you. It doesn’t work that way. 

[Jay] Yeah. Well there definitely is signs that we have that God shows us. I tell people all the time—we learned from Henry Blackaby: Experiencing God, there’s definitely signs that you can look at to know when God’s leading you. And all those things we talked and prayed about it many times in those days. I remember having five things, holding them up on one hand saying—these are the five reasons. I can’t remember what they were now. But one by one they use were taken away. I’m like— wow, I have no more reasons not to do this. And I’m like— okay God. 

But it was difficult for me to take that step.

[Heidi] And it was difficult once you did it. 

[Jay] Absolutely. 

[Heidi] Because things did not fall into place like we had hoped they would. And we struggle financially. I mean really struggled. And I remember driving somewhere, and I remember going through our mail and looking at the mortgage payment and I just burst into tears just sitting there thinking— I don’t know how we’re going to pay for this. I don’t know how we’re going to do this. And the Lord had been providing for us, like manna from heaven and in kind of strange ways. And I remember you saying something that’s so impacted me. You said— you know, Heidi, I wonder what would happen if instead of us freaking out, if we just thanked the Lord because we trusted His provision and we knew that God was going to provide. And we did that. You’re driving, I think we were heading towards Seattle, and we just started thanking the Lord.

Like— thank you Lord, that you’ve already provided for this mortgage payment. Thank you that you see the situation that we’re in and You are faithful and we trust You. And wouldn’t you know it? 

[Jay] Yeah. I don’t know that it was that hyper spiritual. I just remember us recounting the previous three months, I think it had been, where every month we’d done the exact same thing. We’d get to the third week of the month and the book keeper would call and say there just isn’t enough money to pay.

[Heidi] Yea, our little nonprofit. We used to say we put the non in nonprofit. 

[Jay] That’s right.  But yet every month, and it was usually was on the last day of the month, the money would come in and we were able to pay our bills. So that’s what brought that about. It’s like— look, God keeps providing every month, even though He waits to the last second, it feels like. 

[Heidi] Rarely early, but never late. 

[Jay] But never late. Yea. So it just seemed logical to me to just praise God because it looks like that’s what He’s going to do— He just waits to last second every month. And that’s how He works and let’s praise Him for what He’s going to do with the last second. 

[Heidi] Yeah. 

[Jay] So I mean, it still was hard. I mean we still had hard things that happened during those days, but God has provided, God has blessed, and walked us through, and taught us like crazy, and really grown us up. Looking back, and looking at even how we are now, and what we do together, just seeing how God uniquely brought us to a place to use the things He equipped us to do, to do something greater than we are individually on our own.

[Heidi] I remember you telling me one time, because I never planned on speaking and the only reason I even did it was because somebody didn’t show up for an event and they asked me to fill in— and one thing sort of led to another. And I remember you telling me after, I don’t even know where we were, at a particular event that I’d spoken to something simple, and you came up and said— you have a gift, you should use that gift more. And I’m like— well yea, we have five little kids. We had two more kids after that. But you saw something that you wanted to see me grow in. And I think that’s a really unique thing that you did for me. And seeing in each other the gifts that God’s uniquely given us. Like I see so many giftings in you and you’ve been using those gifts for the Lord as long as I’ve known you, and to take the gifts that God has given you, and blend them with the gifts that God has given me, where there’s not a competition and no who’s out front or who’s on first. The Lord really does amazing things through it. And it doesn’t look like any of us ever thinks it will. I think that’s kind of a big thing to know.

[Jay] Yeah. God takes the little bit that we are willing to be obedient with and then multiplies it. And we’ve seen that in our family. Even just looking around where we’re sitting right now, which is like— how in the world that we get here? Well, we got here because God asked us to do something and we’re like— really God? okay, we’ll take this step. And then it’s like He just does a much bigger thing and then we take another step, and that’s just how it is for us anyhow. That’s how God has led us and used us. And it is a joy, as I mentioned earlier, it’s a joy to see all that. It doesn’t always make sense and man’s economy, but I think that’s what God often wants because He wants us to give Him the glory and not pat ourselves on the back—because we’re just not that good.

[Heidi] Right? Yeah. You right. So think that the Lord’s calling us to do something and we step out in faith. And we say—okay Lord, we’re gonna do this. We think we hear your voice. And some things go really well and other things are really hard and really painful. But I think something that we’ve learned, and you’ve been particularly instrumental in this, because I probably would have given up. You’re the one who was like— don’t give up. I think one of the nice things about our 30 year union is that we’ve never both been so discouraged at the same time that we just throw in the towel. Like usually when I’m discouraged, you’re, you’re feeling pretty good and when you’re discouraged I’m like— come on, we got this thing. 

[Jay] Yea, I think God does that on purpose. 

[Heidi] Yeah. I think that must be the Lord. And I remember starting the podcast sitting in that little studio, and we would try something and how many downloads we get?

[Jay] I don’t remember but I remember at one point having 200 downloads. I don’t remember where it was. I just remember thinking— wow, we’ve got 200 downloads. This is amazing! 

[Heidi] Yeah, it’s amazing! 

[Jay] Yea, 200 people are being encouraged because of what we’re bringing. 

[Heidi] Yeah. And those little things, that little encouragement and the willingness to say— hey, we’re going to get up tomorrow, we’re going to do it again. And we’re going to try to get better. And then there was a season where we had to put it down for awhile. I think it was right after Saylor was born. And we took a break from it because I just could not juggle the newborn.

[Jay] And you were having some health problems too.

[Heidi] Yeah. So a lot of things going on. And then we picked it up again and you had this great idea to say— hey, let’s try like…. Remember we tried an hour? I thought—oh, I’ll do an hour. We tried five minutes — can’t do it. 

[Jay] Well, it was five minutes every day. Then we thought, let’s do an hour once a week. 

[Heidi] And I couldn’t. 

[Jay] And it was just too long. 

[Heidi] Yeah. Too Long. And so you thought— what if we did like a short podcast? You know enough to get something in there three times a week. And wouldn’t you know it— it actually worked. And I was looking at how many downloads we’ve had now. And I wrote this down because it’s astonishing. In the eight years we’ve been doing this, how many years does that… don’t make me do math. 2014…

[Jay] It’s almost six.

[Heidi] We are at 28.7million downloads. That’s a lot of people. 

[Jay] Well, a lot of downloads. 

[Heidi] A lot of downloads. 

[Jay] Well, it could be dude out there downloading it over and over. And if that’s the case, thank you. 

[Heidi] Part of our heart and doing this today is, I know that there are people married couples in particular, and young people too who aren’t married but they want to follow God. It requires a persistence of just saying— Lord, even when it’s difficult, even when I don’t think it’s going well, even when I’ve only got 200 downloads and I don’t think anyone’s listening to it, to persist in what you’ve asked me to do. And along the way we get to see the faithfulness and the goodness of God.

[Jay] Yeah, absolutely. It really is a joy. And it’s like you’re always saying— hey, I’ve God had a refrigerator. Your face would be on it, your picture would be on it. That’s what you say. If God had a refrigerator, your picture would be on it. And it’s kinda like that. When we’re doing what God has asked us to do, and we’re just thinking— there’s no, well this was going to work. And then it does. And you’re like— wow, how’s this even happening? I really believe it’s God blessing us and doing it and it’s like He’s smiling and putting your picture on His refrigerator.

[Heidi] Yeah. I love that. It’s a beautiful analogy of the heart of God for His kids. And even when it doesn’t work. I mean, there’ve been 100 million things I feel like you and I have tried that were like— yeah, that didn’t work.

[Jay] But we don’t talk about those things. 

[Heidi] We don’t talk about those things. We have those little conferences and are like— welp, start over again. But I have appreciated so much Jay, your willingness to just say— Hey, let’s keep trying this and see where the Lord takes it. And the same thing is true of the homeschool resource center. We prayed for this place for 15 years, just tried things that didn’t work. And there are seasons of loneliness, truly, and isolation. And yet God was still at work. He was still at work. God’s still works even when it’s dark, even when you can’t see Him, He’s still working.  I think it’s worth reminding people that the Bible teaches us that He who began a good work is faithful to complete it. And this is an exciting time to be a Christian.

[Jay] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. We live in the Northwest and it’s kind of crazy out here if you haven’t seen the news or listen to the news.

[Heidi] *laughter* that’s my nervousness laugh.

[Jay] But we always tell people— Hey, light shines brighter in the darkness.

[Heidi] Yea, you right.

[Jay] And I think that when our lives, because there we definitely go through times….I don’t know why God does this, but He’s just quiet and you’re like— Lord, please Lord. I mean I’m there. We went through seasons where I remember just crying out to the Lord like— Lord, what do we do now? 

[Heidi] you’re so quiet. 

[Jay] Yeah. I mean I just think He wants us to trust Him, lean on Him. It’s kind of like a trial when you go through those things. And all those things, looking back on those times, it’s grown me, it’s grown us, and we’ve had to just go—you know what? we know got us to school this direction to do this thing, let’s just keep at it until we hear what He says next.

[Heidi] Until He really closes the door. 

[Jay] Or He closes the door so you can’t do it anymore. 

[Heidi] Yeah. Yeah. And we’ve had Him closed the door on some things too. That’s certainly been the case. And I think those parts are very, very difficult because that means when you see— hey, the Lord is not blessing us anymore. He was blessing for a season but He isn’t anymore. Now you’ve got to open your hand and release it. And we certainly did that with First-Class. We’ve done that with several things. You know that we poured our heart and soul into you and it didn’t go the way we wanted it to. And yet later, sometimes even years down the road, you can start to go— oh I see. That’s what the Lord was doing. He’s faithful. 

[Jay] That’s right. He is. He’s good. 

[Heidi] He’s good all the time. Well Babe, I appreciate you. 

[Jay] Thank you. I appreciate you on. 

[Heidi] 800 podcasts—wow!

[Jay] I don’t know, you have so much to say. I think that all the time when I’m mixing podcasts and I’m like— how in the world do you come up with more stuff to talk about? But you do.

[Heidi] Because the world is always changing. This turned out to be a good thing for you, because I can get some of my like 700 million words out in the podcast.

[Jay] And maybe it’s quieter at home in the evening, is that what you’re thinking?

[Heidi]  I could be, I don’t know. I don’t know. Well we sure appreciate the audience and everybody listening, and sharing the podcast with your friends. We read every single review that you guys leave on iTunes. I even read the one from that crabby lady last week who said that I viewed the world through an unjust lens—an unjust scale, I think is what she said. Initially I was kind of wounded and then I was like— no, I guess everybody’s entitled to their own opinion. So we read those, and for the most part we’re very encouraged. So thanks everybody for leaving reviews, and thanks for sharing it for helping us get to 28 million downloads. It’s kind of an amazing thing. We appreciate your prayers and your support. 

If you guys want to support the ministry, you can certainly do that financially. We really need your prayers, absolutely. We’re here now in the studio. We did this podcast for a long time out of our closet. 

[Jay] I know, I thought we were going to talk about that. That’s right. We started in the, once we moved home from US Digital, it was just easier to do them at home. And we did it in the closet because it’s quieter in there. 

[Heidi] Oh yeah, all the clothes will absorb the sound. 

[Jay] The problem is, it’s not very big. It’s really claustrophobic in there and I couldn’t see through the door. So I’d shut the door while you talk and I’m just going to hear you. We were doing that for quite a while. 

[Heidi] We did that for quite awhile. Let me move to the school room a little bit. 

[Jay] That’s right. And that worked out pretty good. 

[Heidi] That worked pretty good.

[Jay] And actually that room was quieter than I thought it would be. 

[Heidi] Only a few people heard us yell at the kids. 

[Jay] That’s right. 

[Heidi[ So that was good. 

[Jay] Or the kids yelling outside the door. 

[Heidi] Yeah, yeah, that’s true. Yep. And then, about a year and a half ago we moved here. To the studios are Firmly Planted Family, which—it’s amazing. 

[Jay] It’s amazing. I mean there could be kids screaming and yelling and banging and whatever else they’re doing out there and it is quiet as anything in here. 

[Heidi] Yeah. That’s amazing. That’s amazing. Well, speaking of amazing, I’m looking out the window of the studio right now and our son has just arrived. So that’s kind of fun. It’s fun to see what the Lord’s doing. Even as our kids are grown. I mean, 800 episodes— they were a lot smaller when we started on this podcast. So we just want to take a little bit of time since we never do this and just tell you guys, thank you for listening and we really appreciate it. 

[Jay] Yup. Thank you very much. 

[Heidi] All right, you guys, if you want any questions or if you’ve got a question that you want to send me to Mailbox Monday, please send it to podcast@thebusymom.com we love you guys. Thanks for celebrating this milestone with us. Stay faithful. I’ll see you back here on Wednesday. 

Write to Heidi:
Heidi St. John
c/o Firmly Planted Family
11100 NE 34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682

Support this ministry by donating through E-giving. You can also send donations to: 1100 NE34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682

 

Yes! You Can Have the Marriage You’ve Always Wanted… but you’ve got to work for it! with Jon and Ann Dunagan — 797

What’s the secret to a joyful, successful family? It starts with a joyful marriage. Your family doesn’t need to look like other families—but you do need to be grounded in God’s Word! Let’s talk about what that looks like as we wish the Dunagans a wonderful 34th Anniversary!

Transcribed version of the podcast is below

Today’s Scripture Writing Challenge Verse

  • Proverbs 31:30-31

Resources Mentioned in Podcast

Scripture Mentioned in Podcast

  • Acts 6
  • Acts 8
  • Acts 21
  • Psalm 1
  • Isaiah 32:17-18
  • Ephesians 4
  • Psalms 127:1

Join us at MomStrong International for our Bible Study and Scripture Writing!

Submit your questions to MailBox Monday: podcast@thebusymom.com



JON & ANN DUNAGAN, Co-Founders of Mission-Minded Families, with Harvest Ministry, are International Mission Leaders and veteran homeschool parents of 7 grown kids (with an ever-increasing number of spouses and grandkids). Collectively, the Dunagan’s have ministered or traveled to over 100 nations and to all 7 continents — focused on remote frontier evangelism, loving orphans, planting churches, and helping families for God’s Great Commission. They have written numerous mission books for families and children including The Mission-Minded Family, The Scarlet Cord: Nothing but the Blood of Jesus and The Whole World Needs Jesus.

Connect with Jon and Ann: Mission Minded Families |  The Scarlet Cord: Nothing but the Blood of Jesus


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TRANSCRIPTION:

All right everybody, welcome to the show today. I’m real excited you guys are here. A bunch of stuff is coming down the pike over at Heidi St. John, so just want to encourage you guys to get off the bench and get onto the battlefield with me. One of the reasons I love my guests today is that they have been on mission, on point, off of the sidelines, and onto the front lines since long before I knew them. They’ve encouraged me tremendously. Jon and Anne Dunagan are the founders of Mission Minded Families and they are serving with Harvest Ministries. They’re the parents of seven grown homeschooled kids. They’re doing something I like to call “Grandkid Palooza” over there. Collectively, the Dunagan’s have ministered to, and traveled to, over a hundred nations and to all seven continents—focused on remote frontier evangelism, loving or event planning churches, and helping families for God’s Great Commission. We’re going to be talking about marriage and family today. This is something these guys know a lot about. 

So one of my favorite reasons for having Jon and Anne on the show today, is that these guys do a thing or two about marriage. And in fact, I just happened to get them on their 34th wedding anniversary. So Jon and Ann Dunagan, thanks for spending it with me.

[Jon] Well, we’re glad to be here and we sure appreciate you having us on this interview. I appreciate you reminded me of the exact date of our wedding anniversary. I was trying to remember it earlier this morning, so I’m glad to be reminded.

[Heidi] Well, that could actually go badly for you. I think sometimes people will ask my husband— how long have you guys been married? Jay will get the sort of like a deer in the headlights look, and then he’ll say: not long enough. 

[Jon] Ann’s grandparents were married over 50 years and her grandmother once asked her grandfather, she said: Lewis, you haven’t told me you love me in many, many years. And he said: well, Margaret, I told you that 50 years ago and if  I would have changed my mind I would have said something.

[Heidi] Man! So you guys are busy. I mean every time I talk to you—you’re traveling, you’ve got new projects going up. But before we get to everything you’re doing, because I really want to hit the topic of marriage with you, I love talking to people who have been married for a long time. And I know there are a lot of people listening to this today who could use the encouragement that you guys are going to give. But tell everybody a little bit about your family and what you’ve been doing for the last 34 years.

[Ann] Well, as a family, 34 years of marriage, about the same amount of time being involved in global missions all over the world, and we’ve got seven kids. Five are married and we have just had number 12 and 13 grandbabies. So we are a growing, and being fruitful, and we are thoroughly loving life and it just gets better and better.

[Jon] I know of the 13 grandkids, nine of them are in diapers and the oldest is six. We are certainly enjoying this season of life to have not only raised our generation of our own children to serve the Lord, but to also see our grandchildren growing up to serve the Lord. It is really exciting and joyful. 

[Heidi] Yeah, it really is. It’s multigenerational what you’re doing from the start.

[Ann] Yeah. You know, really from the very beginning, even back when we were engaged, we had a vision for our family to think generationally and to really plan our lives for eternity. And something way back when we were engaged as we were just really praying about what God’s plan was for our life, is we felt the Lord speak to our heart and say that our marriage was not going to be characterized by our ministry, but our ministry would be characterized by our marriage. And so, from the very beginning it was this culture of both ministry and family together, multiplying each other.

[Jon] And also, when we were first married and we committed in our future lives, and family, and grandchildren, all to the Lord, committing our entire future to the Lord. We felt the Lord prompt us out of the book of acts, that we were to pattern our life after Philip, not Phillip the apostle, but Philip the evangelist. In Acts 6 he served as a deacon. In Acts 8 he was an evangelist in the city of Sumeria, and then he ministered to the Ethiopian Uniq, and then he was taken by the Lord and put up into another city. And then in Acts 21 we find Paul and his traveling companions, they come and they visit Philip. And Philip was known for his hospitality. And also it says that he had four virgin daughters who prophesied. And so what we got out of that is that we were to live a life of service to the Lord. Like Phillip, we were to be evangelists, and that we were to raise godly children, and to live a life of hospitality and of outreach and of serving the Lord and others. And so that’s what we’ve been doing by the grace of God, for the last 30 something years.

[Heidi] Wow. And you guys have really had quite an impact. I mean, you really are known for hospitality. You’re known for all of these things. And I think there are parents who are listening to this right now who are like— oh, for goodness sake, the Dunnigan’s have been traveling all over the world. They’ve raised their kids, and I can’t even get cereal on the table for my five little people every day. So talk to the parents, Ann I’ll start with you and then I’m going to shift over to Jon. But Ann, talk to the mom right now who’s listening to this and they’re hearing what you guys are saying and they’re like— yes, I want that. How do I do that? Where do I start? What do you say?

[Ann] For us it’s even just like establishing— do you get it? Do you get what life’s all about? And we like to say that we are living for eternity, we’re living for the Kingdom of God. Marriage and family, this is God’s idea. Not everybody is going to get on an airplane and travel to some remote foreign place. Something we’d like to say— missions is not just for missionaries, God’s call is for all. But as a family we develop a culture. As your family, each of you develop a culture for your family. 

And for us, part of that culture is evangelism and adventure and travel. We love babies, we love life. We have fun. If we focused on the gospel and the Great Commission, it’s part of our family culture. And every family needs to realize what are the gifts, talents, abilities, and interests that you have as a family and how can you develop those—will make a difference for eternity?

[Heidi] Yeah. And that mom who’s baby just crawled through the spilled orange juice on the floor right now, she starts with just prayer and really getting together. You guys got together. I mean, this is what I’m imagining and is that you and Jon, and Jon this is something you can speak to you—you guys came together and you decided together: this is something that’s important to us, we want to serve the Lord. What does that look like practically when our kids are very little? Because I know Ann, you and I have talked about this, Jon traveled quite a bit, right? And Ann, you didn’t always get to go. There are some seasons where that’s difficult, and what I think can be sometimes lost in the younger years when all of our kids are little, is what we’re doing is we’re in a season of sowing. But then there comes a season of reaping. So what do the parents, who are in the season of sowing — how can they begin to build that culture for their own families?

[Jon] I would just say one of the most important things to sow is to continually sow the Word of God over the lives of your children. 

[Heidi] Oh yes. 

[Jon] For years, ever since our children were born, and even before they were born—even before Ann was pregnant with them, we would pray God’s promises over them. For example, like Psalm 1 where it says blessed it is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the ungodly. And we would insert the name of our children in there. And I still to this day, pray for our children and even our grandchildren. I personalize that Scripture, inserting individual names into Psalm 1 or other Scriptures like that. And another Scripture that has really stood out to us over the years, and one of my favorite ones regarding home and family, is in Isaiah 32:17-18 it says: the work of righteousness will be peace; in the effect of righteousness, quietness and assurance forever. My people will dwell in a peaceful habitation, in secure dwellings and in quiet resting places. 

Over the years we have just prayed and thanked God even in advance. Even when we were living with kids in an apartment and it wasn’t so peaceful, quiet, and secure, we would just say: Lord, we thank you that by your grace we have a home that is peaceful, quiet, and secure. Lord, we thank you that by Your Word that each and every one of our descendants will love and serve and follow you. And so I just can’t emphasize enough of praying the word of God over your family, your home, and your children.

[Heidi] Jon you’re hitting on something really important, because I think in the culture right now we have maligned the role of fathers in the home, and yet God has given you an incredible role. That is the stewardship of your family. The Bible declares that men are to be leaders in their homes. And I know there are a lot of men that are listening to this right now that haven’t been doing that and they know that their families are struggling. Talk to that man right now. How can he become the leader that God wants them to be in his home and to love his wife, like Christ loved the church?

[Jon] Well, I once talked to one pastor that he said when he gets in an argument with his wife, he always gets the last word in. And that is: yes dear. 

[Heidi] Yeah, you right. 

[Jon] And I like to say— Ann acknowledges me the leader of the home as long as I do what she tells me to do. No, you know, being the leader of you home as a dad is not…. first of all, you need to get out of this mentality that you’re some old testament patriarch. The Bible says that we submit to one another in love and I’m the leader of our home, but I also submit to Ann’s council and direction too, that we prayerfully consider things, and listen to what she has to say. And sometimes we’re asked— what is the most important marriage advice you can give? And we’ve been asked that many, many times. And my answer is this: is it’s Ephesians 4— do not let the sun go down on your wrath. 

And we have taken that even as a step farther that we don’t even part company if there’s wrath or discussion or disagreement. We make sure things are good between us before we part company. There’s also a little speech that I like to teach guys. And the speech is this: I am sorry. I was wrong. Please forgive me. 

[Heidi] Yeah. 

[Jon] If you want to have a happy home….

[Ann] It’s got to have all three parts. 

[Jon] Yea, you’ve got to have that in you. One time I told Ann—I’m sorry. Please forgive me. And said— you forgot the other part about I was wrong. But you know what? If a husband wants to be a leader in the home, to be a good leader you have to acknowledge that you can make mistakes as a dad and as a husband. You need to be willing to say: you know what? I’m sorry I was wrong. Please forgive me —to your wife and to your children. And then to correct that mistake. Then lead as well as you can according to God’s Word and you’re not going to be perfect. But you’ve just got to really have a humble heart as a dad and as a husband. 

[Ann] Another thing Heidi is, when you’re thinking about that the mom with those little kids and the cheerios and the orange juice spilled all over everywhere is— even during those busy years as a mom, that we are growing and being eternally focused. I think of living in what I call sub-mission to God. It’s like that part “sub” of what’s under the surface. And just as we are growing in our relationship with the Lord, teaching our kids the Word of God— whether it’s teaching them memory versus or teaching them how to pray, but to realize that under the surface it’s like our roots are growing or like under the surface is like a submarine— we can be advancing forward for the Kingdom of God even when no one is seeing what we’re doing. It’s those under the surface things of character and our relationship with God. Living with a fear of God in our life is more important than what we do for God. It’s our relationship with Him that then overflows into a healthy relationship as husbands and wives and parents and children.

[Heidi] Yeah, that’s right. I just had Bill Jack on the show last week and we were talking a little bit about the importance of parents really stepping into the gap for their children and taking an active role in the discipleship of their children. The schools should not be discipling our children. The church is not to disciple children, they are to come alongside and assist their primary job is not to disciple children. That is the primary job of parents. What does that look like or what has that looked like? I realize your kids are grown now, but I’m watching you guys discipling your grandchildren now also. So what did that look like in the Dunnigan home?

[Jon] Well, in the book of Deuteronomy it says that we’re to diligently teach our children, when you sit down, when you stand up, when you walk on the way— all different types in environments that were to disciple and train our children. And I would just say as a dad, that you have to find out what works for you. My wife, her side of the family is very academic minded. Lots of teachers and professors and principals in schools, things like this. And my side of the family is more outdoors. Loggers, hunters, fishermen, farmers, that type of thing. And I have never really been so much into a formal Bible studies with our family. Some people think that in order to be a successful parent, the dad has to always lead formal Bible studies.

But you know what? That wasn’t my style of teaching to our kids. My style of teaching was discipling them. When we’re doing regular things through the course of life, and whether we’re working together or cutting wood, or whether we’re building something, or even sitting in the hot tub. In fact, one of our sons who just graduated from Bible College, after three years in Bible College, he said: I just want to tell you something. There is not even one thing I learned at Bible College that you had not already taught me while we were sitting in the hot tub.

[Heidi] That’s awesome. I love it. That’s awesome. Jon, I think you know what I just heard? I just heard a whole bunch of chains fall off.  You are setting guys free right now. I think that is so good. 

[Jon] Guys, disciple your kids in the way that you can do it the best, and you just got to figure out— okay, where can you really get in your stride and where can you disciple the best. Now, Ann—she discipled better doing more of, especially when the kids were a little, teaching them through songs and through Scripture memory, and in hiding the Word of God in their heart in that way. More of a formal structure. But together we’re a team. Together our styles of discipleship and teaching our kids, it works together in their life. And you come out with a good solid product.

[Ann] You know, Heidi,  I will say that there have been two things that were the hardest to get through and find peace in a thing that was an ongoing disagreement. And one of them had to do with family devotions and the other one had to do with ballroom dancing. 

[Heidi] Because that’s the same thing. 

[Ann] Oh man. Like, I just had such a dream of having this anniversary and being able to do ballroom dancing with my husband and he’s just like— I’m not a dancer.

[Jon] Not gonna happen.

[Ann] And we go to a wedding and we would come home so frustrated with each other because I wanted him to do ballroom dancing with me. And he just like wouldn’t do it. A wedding is where we would argue. And I finally just had to realize that this is silly. This is so stupid for the enemy to allow this little thing that does not make any difference, to be something of a divisive in our marriage. And I just realized— Hey, I have all kinds of crazy stuff that other ladies don’t have and I don’t need to have the ballroom dance. And that’s okay. And actually, he did dance at a couple of our children’s weddings. He did do that and dance with a couple of our daughters, which was really, really sweet. 

But this other thing, family devotions. Okay. I grew up in a home with very godly parents. Both of us come from wonderful, godly parents. And my family had family devotions every night. I am talking every single night of our life. It didn’t matter if we were at grandma and grandpa’s house. It didn’t matter if we had company. We always had family devotions and they always had the same little routine. We would sing a little song, we’d read the Scriptures, we’d go around the circle and everyone would say a prayer, and then we would say the Lord’s prayer together. And when we first got married, Jon thought that would be a good idea for us to do that as well. 

I’m the oldest in my family. So as we would go back and visit my family and younger siblings, Jon began to see that he didn’t actually like how some of the family devotion was just this ritual where my teenage brothers were just like saying the same little memorized prayer that they’d been saying for three years, and there wasn’t a relationship there. And Jon’s like— I don’t want this style of discipleship and Bible training in our family. And I’m like— but this is good, you need to lead our family. And we would argue, and I really thought I was right. I thought I had the higher ground on this. 

And finally it came down to one place where Jon just said— okay, you come from a family with a very strong mom and a very strong grandma. And if you want to lead our family, you can lead it. Or if you want to let me lead— let me lead. And at that point, I let go of my family devotion thing, and I just let go. And you know, that was a long, long time ago— 25 years ago or so. 

[Heidi] And you just got out of counseling for it to be honest.

[Jon] By the way, we have never had an argument.

[Ann] Intense negotiation.

[Jon] We just have intense negotiations.

[Ann] But our children, they all love the Lord. They love the Lord. They have personal walks with the Lord. They all love the Word of God. They’re all serving the Word of God today. It’s so awesome seeing our kids raising their children for the Word of God. I just realized— I don’t need to put Jon in this little box where he has to be like what the homeschool gurus say. He’s not like them, he is his own person. And so I think that is sometimes even just kind of letting go of some of these preconceived ideas of what it has to look like and just realize the point is that we’re following God. Psalms 127:1— unless the Lord builds a house they labor in vain who built it. 

[Heidi] So good. You guys. I want to talk really quickly to the, the couple that’s listening to this right now and there’re raising children. Maybe they got teenagers. You and I both have seven children that we’ve been raising for a long time. I never realized that life wasn’t actually going to slow down. I kept thinking— oh, next year when things slow down a little bit, then I’ll have time for this. Or next year. I think we live for that sort of moment when we think we’re going to get this calm clarity and be able to really focus on our marriage. But it doesn’t work like that. 

So talk to the parents who are listening to this right now and they are recognizing they need to make time for each other. So maybe they’ve spent a lot of time—you know, the mom is devoting her time to the kids. The Dad is devoting his time to work and and they’re really neglecting that primary relationship in the home, which is the marriage. Talk to those those parents for just a few minutes.

[Ann] Yeah. We need to nurture our marriage, have fun together, take walks together, be active together. You know, like Jon mentioned—get a hot tub. That actually is something really practical that you can have like a date at home. 

[Heidi] Yeah. Nobody do that until I put my Amazon affiliate link in the show notes, okay, don’t get your hot tub until that affiliate link gets in there. Just give me 15 minutes.

I was on a homeschool group a couple of days ago and there was a mom on there that said something like— I just don’t even care about intimacy and marriage, I could even do without it. And you know, that is dangerous. We need to be romantic. We need to be able to flirt with each other. Something we’ve been doing lately is we’ve been working on doing several 15 second kisses throughout the day.

[Heidi] Hey man, Jay would love that!

[Ann] Yeah. They have to be at least 15 seconds….

[Jon] And if they’re not 15 seconds, you got to start over. 

[Ann] And Jon can’t be too frisky and until kiss number three. 

[Heidi] Because the women are the crockpot and the men are the microwave.

[Jon] I would just encourage you as a husband and wife to just not be afraid to have fun together. I once heard someone saying… I don’t know how they came up with this number, but someone said that some theologian came up with that the feast in the Old Testament that God commanded, amounted to about 20% of a person’s income throughout the year. In other words, God commanded basically about 20% of a person’s income to be blown on feasts and having a good time.

[Heidi] Hey man, we can get behind that.

[Jon] There’s nothing wrong with just having fun and enjoying life together too. You only get one shot at this life. And one thing we’ve kind of taken in our home and encouraged our kids to do is—we’ve told them, you’ve got to just squeeze every ounce of life out of every day because you never get it back again. I mean, just squeeze every ounce of life that you can and live a life full of faith and adventure and joy. And it’s contagious. For example, we just had two daughters—our daughter Christine or daughter Kayla. Christie has three children. Kayla was just newly married this last December. They just got back from running a marathon in Antarctica. They went to run a marathon as a fundraiser for one of the orphanages that we just started in Nepal. That was instilled from them as children to live a life of adventure and be outgoing. And so for them to go to Antarctica was just kind of in the normal stride of life for them to do. It’s just that aggressive outgoing looking for opportunity in life to just do something extraordinary for the Lord. 

[Ann] Our daughter was saying — who raises their kids to be so ridiculous? But they are doing who we are.

[Heidi] Well, it’s the family culture. 

[Ann] Just a couple of weeks ago we had this annual thing that we do as a family where we get all together and we have a family triathlon. We swim and bike and run and there’s some that are just like keeping track of the scores. And there are others that are cooking the breakfast. We have a big spaghetti feast the night before. But I tell you, we have kids, grown children, that fly in from across the country to be a part of this every year. And there’s just part of nurturing relationships that it doesn’t detract from the mission and purpose of your family. It just kind of helps you have a family culture, family identity of just— this is who we are. And it actually makes life a lot more fun too. 

[Heidi] Yeah, it really does.

[Jon] You know, we are all about missions and evangelism. For over 30 years we have been preaching the gospel in the most remote areas of the world. Places where people have never heard of Jesus. We’ve seen the needs, we’ve seen the poverty, we’ve seen starvation. We’ve got several orphanages under our care right now with approximately 1,100 orphan kids. We see the need, but we’re also not afraid to have fun in this life too. And to nurture our marriage and to ball a little money on some things that are really just not even eternal, but just for fun. It’s important to see the need, but sometimes people can get so serious and focused that there’s no joy in their life. And for me, we are to pattern our life after Jesus and to be a disciple of Jesus.

And I see Jesus just as someone who was so full of life that people flocked to Him. Life just radiated out of Him and He was not just some stuffed up. You see that He was just the essence of life and joy. So much so that even people who are deep in sin wanting to be around Him because of the life that radiated from Him. And we want to be like that. Like people just filled with the life of Jesus, not only for outreach, but also in our home, in our marriage where their children and grandchildren.

[Heidi] It’s so good. Well, you guys have been a huge encouragement to me today. I’m just sitting over here taking notes like I always do with my favorite guests on the show. And I think my takeaway from this is to train your children to love the Lord and you can have fun in the process. And you guys are definitely an example of doing that. Where can people find you guys online?

People can find us at Mission Minded Families and I believe we sent you also, Heidi, a link to a free ebook on The Scarlet Cord: Nothing but the Blood of Jesus. It’s like a concise call to world missions. We would love for people to take advantage of that and just to remember you don’t have to cross the seas to be a missionary. You just need to see the cross, remember the cross of Jesus Christ. 

[Jon] And if we can hurry up with this interview because I want to get onto one of those 15 seconds. 

[Heidi] Yes, you guys are awesome! All right, Jon and Ann, I’m gonna let you go so you can start kissing. Thank you so much for coming on the show. It’s been an absolute joy to have you here

[Jon and Ann] You’re welcome Heidi, Thank you.

[Heidi] For more information on Jon and Ann Dunagan, and their amazing ministry to families, you can find out more at the show notes today, I will also link back to that free Ebook. 

You guys, I know you’ve been encouraged today. If you love listening to this podcast that I hope that you do, please be sure to leave a review for it over at iTunes and share it with your friends. Thanks so much for listening everybody, and I’ll see you back here on Monday.

Write to Heidi:
Heidi St. John
c/o Firmly Planted Family
11100 NE 34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682

Support this ministry by donating through E-giving. You can also send donations to: 1100 NE34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682

Meekness Isn’t Weakness | MomStrong International Week 4 of 4 — 796

Meekness is a word we see tied to gentleness in the scriptures, and commonly misunderstood. Even as you read it, meekness brings to mind pictures of a tiny mouse shivering in the corner. In the ’90s (and still today!) it was big for women in assertiveness classes to decide that in order to not be a doormat, standing up for oneself was the way to go. In reality, meekness is restrained strength—and God offers it to you!

Transcribed version of the podcast is below

Today’s Scripture Writing Challenge Verse

  • Proverbs 31:20-24

Resources Mentioned in Podcast

Scripture Mentioned in Podcast

  • 1 Peter 3:4
  • Psalm 18:35
  • Proverbs 31:10-29

Join us at MomStrong International for our Bible Study and Scripture Writing!

Submit your questions to MailBox Monday: podcast@thebusymom.com


Don’t Miss These!


TRANSCRIPTION:

Hey everybody, this is Heidi St. John. Welcome to the Heidi St. John podcast. Today is Wednesday, July 24th. This is MomStrong International Day here at the podcast. This is the day where I go over just a snippet from the Bible study that we’re doing every month. And today we’re going to be talking a little bit about what it means to be meek— and I’m going to tell you right now: it doesn’t mean weakness. 

Stick around. I think you’re going to be encouraged.

All right, so I’m getting excited, you guys. A couple of things. First of all, I’m in the middle of a little bit of a break right now from traveling. Phew! I do not mind telling you I am enjoying being at home. We are looking forward, however, to getting back on the road because we’ll see you guys in August. So coming up real soon! On the 24th of August, we will be in Kansas City for the Heidi St. John Conference. This year, the theme has been— Miracle Worker: The Life Changing Power of Following Jesus. And I’m going to be transitioning it to what I hope to be speaking out for years to come: Faith that Speaks. So we’re going to be talking about what it means to get off the bench and onto the battlefield— that we can actually speak healing, we can actually speak freedom, we can actually speak truth in love because of our knowledge of the Word of God. So that’s what we’re going to be doing for my women’s conference and I hope you guys will come out. We’ve got a lot of really fun things planned for you. The next one after that will take place in Virginia, in Fredericksburg on the 14th of September. So excited about that! And then the 12th and 19th of October I’ll be first in Vancouver, Washington and my neck of the woods and then in Lincoln, Nebraska. So I check it out at HeidiStJohn.com/events. 

Alright, so we are in the last week of our study. There are a few more weeks that fall into the month of July. We do four weeks of study at MomStrong International. And for those of you who are not familiar with how the studies work— every single month we are writing and producing a brand new study for you. There’s a team of people that write these studies. I’m not the only one who does it because I’m obviously doing a lot of other things. And so we’ve got a team of wonderful women who are knowledgeable in the Word of God, and my son in law helps with them. He is a pastor here in Kansas, Washington. And the whole idea behind putting these studies out is to do what we see lacking in the culture as far as biblical education is concerned. And that is to do everything we can to help you become biblically literate. In other words, to know God’s Word. God is not silent on the issues that this generation is facing. And in fact, He addresses so many of the things that we’re struggling with now in His Word. When we get to know His Word, we become strong and able to defend it.

And so that’s really what we want you to be able to do. You can do these studies in groups, you can do them by yourself. You can start a MomStrong International chapter in your church or in your neighborhood. We just really want to encourage you to do that. It’s also a really great way to support the ministry that is the podcast. We have a team of people that bring you the podcast just like a team writes the study. 

A couple of the things I wanted to let you know too as it relates to my speaking season. My speaking season for the homeschool conference has really has come to an end this year. I want to say thanks to everybody that’s come out and say hello to us. We have loved meeting you, and hugging your necks, and sometimes crying with you— and just hearing what God is doing in your life. If you are interested in having me come out and speak for your event, there is a speakers tab to do that. So if you go to HeidiStJohn.com just look at the top for the speakers tab. That is the very best way to find out if I’m available and what it would take to bring me to your area for an event. Also, we are looking for locations for my women’s conference, Faith that Speaks, that is going to be starting up this fall. And we will be bringing that conference hopefully all over the country and you can host it there. It’s very simple to do. We bring a team in and we do most of the work for you. We just need a facility that’s willing to let us come and spend a Friday evening and a Saturday. So we typically start Friday evenings and we’ll maybe start at seven and go from 7:00pm to 9:30pm, and then we’ll start up again at nine and go from typically from 9:00am-3:00pm. So, to reach out to us ycan click the speakers tab and just say that you’re interested in bringing my women’s conference to your area. I’m telling you what— it’s a weekend that will change your life. And so, I plan on seeing what you can do to host my women’s event. We would love to come out and just encourage your women in the Word of God. 

People ask me all the time— can I bring my daughter? And I tell people— if your daughter is 14 years of age or older, she will get a lot out of it. So this is not just for homeschool moms, it’s not just for mothers— it’s for any woman who wants to get to know God’s Word better. 

All right, let’s look at our study this week and MomStrong International. Before we get started, let’s come before the Father in prayer. 

Lord Jesus, I thank you for the opportunity that you give us every single week here at the podcast to speak Your truth in love. Lord, I pray that as we become women who are more equipped to speak of the gospel, and more equipped to share the good news that you have in Jesus, that you would help us to get off the bench and onto the battlefield, off of the sidelines, and onto the front lines—for the sake of the Gospel and to carry Your Name. Lord, I pray that for every man, woman, and child that’s listening to this today, for everyone within the sound of the reach of my voice, Lord, that you would encourage us by the power of Your Spirit to walk in right relationship with You, to be in Your Word, and to encourage those around us to do the same. Lord, as we talk about what it means to be gentle and meek today, Lord, I pray that you’d fill me with Your Spirit. Father, I pray that if there’s anything that comes to my mind that’s not from You, You prevent me from saying it. Lord, we need to hear from Your Word. We need to hear from You. We love you and we invite you into this show and into our lives. In Jesus name, amen. 

All right. Couple of things as I am looking at this— I talked to a woman not too long ago at an event that I was speaking at and she was saying how it must just be amazing to be Heidi St. John. She said— you just must have the most amazing walk with the Lord. First of all, I want to clear some misconceptions up. I’m just a person just like the rest of you. I’ve got 6,000 pounds of cold, wrinkled laundry waiting for me on my bed right now. I’ve got dishes that need to be done. I have no idea what I’m going to make for dinner tonight. I’ve got a bunch of kids that need my attention, and a husband that I’m trying to love. And I have learned, and am learning —and this is the passion that brings this to you every week—I struggle every week in my own personal life to make time to be in the Word of God. It is a spiritual discipline. It’s no different than the discipline of watching what I eat, or trying to make time for exercise— which I also am having a really hard time doing, but that’s another podcast. 

I just want to encourage you, I’m not a spiritual superhero. I am a woman who is working every day to walk in right relationship with the Lord. I would really appreciate your prayers for me and for our team here that writes these studies—God has called us to this amazing work. And so I want to encourage you to hopefully… I love what Paul said: Follow me as I follow Christ. Paul realizes that he was a chief among sinners, right? And I realized the same thing about my own life. It is the Holy Spirit that keeps us walking in right relationship with the Lord. It’s not homeschooling. Homeschooling doesn’t do it. It’s not you really putting all of your extra effort into your husband, or making sure that you go to church— those are good things, but your private time with the Lord is the most important thing you’ll do all day. And you can do that with your kids. That’s why we include a component called Kids Strong in the MomStrong International Bible Study.

It’s not just for moms, it’s for any woman. My heart beats for mothers in particular, and women in general. I believe that God wants to do an incredible work in this generation. And when faith finds its feet in our hearts, when we really begin to see who we are in Christ, and we start looking or reading through the book of Ephesians, reading through the book of Galatians, and hearing God’s incredible love for us and the way he sees us— it changes us. It changes us. And this month MomStrong International we’ve been working to see and study the fullness of Biblical womanhood. And so before I go much farther, I’m going to read a little bit out of Proverbs 31 and we’re going to soak in a little bit of beauty and wisdom from King Lemuel.

He’s talking about what it would mean to find a good wife, right? And every single one of us is unique, right? We all have strengths and weaknesses, which we’ll talk about in the passage in just a minute. We want to be wives that model God’s heart. And this isn’t just..I mean, yes, he’s talking about — an excellent wife, who can find her? — but really this is for every woman who wants to follow the Lord. So young person,  teenager who’s listening to this right now— this is how God created you. We are all women created in God’s image and He’s created us to be companions and helpers. And I want you to look around and see who God has placed in your life because He has placed you where you are right now on purpose. And he wants you to fulfill your calling, whether you are currently married or whether you’re not.

I’m going to read for just a minute Proverbs 31, but I want to take you back really quickly to this idea of gentleness because we’ve been talking about biblical womanhood as it relates to the fruit of the Spirit all month here at MomStrong International. And gentleness is one of the ones that has really been a heat into the trash bin of the culture, right? We don’t value gentleness and the culture. We don’t value meekness, and yet this is something that God wants His children to exhibit. We need to be able to exhibit these character qualities. It’s very important. 

Listen, gentleness is not synonymous with weakness or inaction, okay? I’m going to say that again. Gentleness does not mean weakness and it does not mean inaction. And in fact, Peter calls us to have a quiet and gentle Spirit in 1 Peter 3:4, and some of your reading this are going— right? It takes a lot of work to find that gentle spirit. There was a mom that I knew a long time ago and she was always telling me that it was her goal in life to have a gentle spirit. To her, the gentle spirit meant— I don’t a interject my thoughts, I’m just going to mind my own business at home. I’m only gonna be here for my husband and my children. Boy, I just don’t think that was what God meant, right? He said to have a meek and quiet spirit. It’s right there in black and white text. But what have we been learning about Biblical literacy? Every Word in the Bible at God’s decision—it’s there for a reason.

And so if we don’t get it, we need to keep asking for wisdom and keep pressing in. Keep digging, always seek to understand the heart of God. If you read something that you don’t understand in the Bible, go back and read it again and say— Lord, help me understand. The Holy Spirit will help you.  We think of Deborah, the prophetess. She was a judge of Israel for a season, and other strong women in the Bible. And the Bible requires that one of these fruits of the spirit that we see is gentleness. And the fruit of gentleness isn’t born of personality, it’s grown by the Holy Spirit and displayed by Jesus. So how does embracing gentleness breathe life into your home? Before we read Proverbs 31, I want you to think about this. Because when you address something with your kids in an unglued sort of fashion, or you freak out— what’s the response that you get?

Yeah, a defensive posture. You get excuses, you get shut down. And if we let that become a habit, we’re going to start frustrating our kids and our husbands and our friends. And we build walls between us. But if we approach the situation calmly, right? Preferably before 9:00pm— then we’ve left ourselves a greater chance of assessing the situation as God would have us assess it and of accessing the hearts of the people that we’re trying to reach, because we’re not sinning all over them along the way. And I think sometimes, and certainly with a personality like mine, I can tell you this is something that I struggle with on a regular basis— so meekness is the word that we see tied to gentleness in the Scriptures, and it is also commonly misunderstood. So even as you read it, meekness is going to bring to mind pictures of that tiny mouse, remember in the cartoons that was shivering in the corner. And in the ‘90s, and still today, it was big for women in assertiveness classes to decide that in order not to be a doormat and stand up for yourself— you gotta be true to yourself and not be gentle and not be meek —except that’s not the Lord, that’s not as hard. 

Jesus called us to be true to Him, to love our enemies. And this includes being gentle and meek. So what does that look like? Meekness isn’t weakness. Meekness is restrained strength. You should write that down. In fact, I’m gonna give you a minute. Go get yourself a pencil. Meekness is restrained strength. It’s a quiet strength. In the Bible, it’s used interchangeably in several verses with gentleness. Check this out. Psalm 18:35 — You have also given me the shield of Your salvation, and Your right hand upholds me; And Your gentleness makes me great. His gentleness makes us great. Wow! Psalm 45:4 — And in Your majesty ride on victoriously, for the cause of truth and meekness and righteousness; let Your right hand teach You awesome things.

How can meekness, truth, and righteousness all be lauded in Psalm 45:4 if one of them isn’t admirable? Look at the difference between weakness and meekness really quickly. A weak person will give a soft answer out of fear, intimidation, and shyness, and even cowardice. His soft answer is due to personal weakness and sometimes spinelessness. That’s not meekness. The opposite of that is meek. A meek person is going to give a soft answer out of strength because we possess the boldness and strength to retort sharply, but because of a strength of character, we choose not to. So we choose to answer softly.

And that softness is strength under control. That is a beautiful characteristic in godly women. Larry Pierce, who was the creator of the Online Bible, said this:“Meekness toward God is that disposition of spirit in which we accept His dealings with us as good and therefore without disputing or resisting. In the OT, the meek are those wholly relying on God rather than their own strength to defend against injustice…Gentleness or meekness is the opposite to self-assertiveness and self-interest. It stems from trust in God’s goodness and control over the situation. The gentle person is not occupied with self at all. This is a work of the Holy Spirit, not of the human will”

That is beautiful. And so that’s what we really want to be—aiming toward teaching our children that this meekness in the culture is very important and is not a weakness. It is restraint strength. Let’s look at Proverbs 31 really quickly as we come to the end of today’s study. And again, if you guys want more information on this, we’ve done a fantastic study for you. It’s about 65 pages long. These are not small studies. They’re beautifully illustrated. Lots of spaces for you to fill things out. These are studies that you can download and then study together. So if there’s a group of you that join MomStrong International, get together and talk about what God is doing in your life— that’s really the goal. All right, let’s look at Proverbs 31:10-29:

An excellent wife, who can find? For her worth is far above jewels. The heart of her husband trusts in her, and he will have no lack of gain. She does him good and not evil all the days of her life. She looks for wool and flax and works with her hands in delight. She is like merchant ships; she brings her food from afar. She rises also while it is still night and gives food to her household and portions to her maidens. She considers a field and buys it; from her earnings she plants a vineyard. She girds herself with strength and makes her arms strong. She senses that her gain is good; her lamp does not go out at night. She stretches out her hands to the distaff, and her hands grasp the spindle. She extends her hand to the poor, and she stretches out her hands to the needy. She is not afraid of the snow for her household, for all her household are clothed with scarlet. She makes coverings for herself; her clothing is fine linen and purple. Her husband is known in the gates, when he sits among the elders of the land. She makes linen garments and sells them, and supplies belts to the tradesmen. Strength and dignity are her clothing, and she smiles at the future. She opens her mouth in wisdom, and the teaching of kindness is on her tongue. She looks well to the ways of her household, and does not eat the bread of idleness. Her children rise up and bless her; her husband also, and he praises her, saying: “Many daughters have done nobly, but you excel them all.

This is God’s heart. This is God’s heart for us, that we will be clothed with strength and dignity, that we would open our mouths and wisdom would come out. I love that he talks about kindness being something that she’s known for. We struggle with kindness in the culture right now. The culture does not approve of kindness. The culture wants strength. The culture wants us to get out there. But you know what? That strength is found, that quiet strength is revealed— in the character quality that is meekness. So I want to encourage you to embrace that today. This is something you should be talking about with your kids at the dinner table. 

And women, for those of you who are listening to this today and you’re privileged to be raising children in the culture right now— praise the Lord. Praise the Lord for the opportunity that He has given us to encourage and be examples to the generation that’s coming up because they need mentors. We’re struggling with identity right now and God says— find your identity in Me. Let’s see what God will do. 

I appreciate you guys listening.

As always, if you get a chance to please leave reviews for this podcast over at iTunes, it encourages us. Share it with your friends. If you want to reach out to me, you can reach me podcast@thebusymom.com. If you’ve got questions that you would like to have me address at Mailbox Monday, that is the place to send them. Please put Mailbox Monday in the subject line and please, please keep your questions short and sweet and to the point. We love you guys so much. We thank you for listening and our prayers are with you as you join us in getting off the bench and onto the battlefield. 

Have a great Wednesday everybody, and I’ll see you back here on Friday. 

Write to Heidi:
Heidi St. John
c/o Firmly Planted Family
11100 NE 34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682

Support this ministry by donating through E-giving. You can also send donations to: 1100 NE34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682

 

Biblical Submission in Marriage: What it should look like and why it matters | MomStrong International Week 3 of 4 – 793

Submission. This topic seems to be a bitter pill for many women to swallow—and it’s not hard to understand why. In the church, the issue of submission in marriage is often misrepresented. This week at MomStrong International, we’re studying what Biblical Submission should look like, and why God’s design for marriage is beautiful in every way.

Transcribed version of the podcast is below

Today’s Scripture Writing Challenge Verse

  • Hebrews 13:1-4

Resources Mentioned in Podcast

Scripture Mentioned in Podcast

  • 1 Peter 3:1-2
  • Genesis 2:18
  • 1 Corinthians 13:4-7
  • Titus 2
  • Ephesians 5:22-30
  • Psalm 9:9-10
  • Jeremiah 9:23-24
  • Jeremiah 31:3
  • 2 Corinthians 5:20
  • Colossians 3:19

Join us at MomStrong International for our newest Bible Study and Scripture Writing!

Submit your questions to MailBox Monday: podcast@thebusymom.com


Don’t Miss These!


TRANSCRIPTION:

Hey you guys, this is Heidi St. John. Welcome to my little corner of the Internet. Today is Wednesday, July 17th—this is episode number 793. Today we are in week three of the MomStrong International Bible study. We’re studying the fruits of the Spirit, and through the month of July I have been focusing on studying a biblical womanhood. God has a plan for us as we walk in right relationship with Him. It has to do with our ambassadorship, and that ambassadorship should be affecting and should be touching every aspect of our lives. Whether we are a woman or a man, the ambassadorship remains the same. Let’s talk about it. 

Stick around, I think you’re going to be encouraged.

All right, so before I do anything today, I want to say shout out to my wonderful son Skyler who is turning 22 years old today. Skyler, I love you. You are a joy to our family and an ambassador for the Lord. So as we talk about what’s going on today, this is going to be in the back of my mind—the birthday of my son and how my life as an ambassador of Jesus is ultimately affecting his life and the lives of my other children. And really, that’s kinda what it comes down to. So, I know you guys are going to love this study today. I’m really excited about. Before we get going, lots and lots of things coming up on the calendar. I wanted to let you guys know. 

First of all, I really have appreciated seeing so many of you at the events that we’ve done around the country. My speaking season is winding to a close, which is great because I have a book write. So I’m going to be working on that until school starts up and then I’ll be a right hip-deep into homeschool mode again. But I wanted to let you guys know a bunch of stuff coming up. First of all, I’m going to be at AFHE, and I’ve been talking about this for a while on the podcast. If you are in Arizona or New Mexico or Colorado or there’s about, come on out. I will be there July 19th, so in just a couple of days, the 19th and 20th. After that, my next stop will be my women’s conference. So the Heidi St. John Conference comes to Lee’s Summit, Missouri. We are just thrilled to be there. It’s going to be wonderful. It’s a one day event and it is going to be a wonderful time for you to dig deep into the Word of God.

Listen, the reason I do these is because I want to encourage you that God’s Word is relevant to your life right now. In other words, no matter what you’re facing, God has an answer for you. He wants you to walk in relationship with Him in such a way that when weird things happen in the culture, when you’re faced with a new problem, or something that you weren’t really sure how to respond to—God has an answer for you in His Word. And so that’s the focus of my women’s conference. That will be happening August 24th in Lee’s Summit, Missouri at one of my favorite churches, Abundant Life Church. 

After that, September 14th, I’ll be in Fredericksburg, Virginia for my women’s conference and then following that one I will be doing my women’s conference in Vancouver, Washington. It only happens once a year, so now’s the time to find out. The early bird registration rates for Fredericksburg end pretty quickly, August 5th. So if you’re in the area and you want to come out to that conference, this will be the only time I’m in that neck of the woods for the foreseeable future. So come on out Fredericksburg, Virginia, September 14th.  

Also want to let you guys know that we continue just to be thrilled and blessed by the reviews that you’re leaving for the podcast over at iTunes. Please continue to do that. It’s really an encouragement to us just to see the Lord grow the podcast. And speaking of the podcast growing, be listening for more information over the next couple of weeks about some really fun giveaways that we’re going to do to get ready to celebrate our 800th podcast on August 2nd. So we’re gearing up to celebrate our 800th podcast. You guys are gonna love the guests we’ve got lined up for that particular episode. 

And for us, it’s a time to sort of look back and I’ll give you a little bit of history of how the podcast started and how my husband and I have been doing this for coming on eight years now. So a long time and loving just the impact that it’s having in your life. So I want to just encourage you, keep leaving those reviews. 

It also is a huge blessing to me, if you’ll leave reviews for the books I’ve written over at Amazon or any place that books are available. There’s a couple of other things coming up, but I’m going to skip ahead because the Bible study is today. So for the month of July, we are studying biblical woman and I know there are a lot of men who listen to this and I’m trying guys, I’m really trying to throw you some love. But I will say this particular topic is going to be geared more towards the women. And if you’re a guy listening to this and you’ve got a daughter, this is a very important conversation to be having because the conversation needs to be had in the church and needs to be had in the culture at large.

And so before we dig into that, let’s look at our verse for today. The verse for the Scripture Writing Challenge is found in Hebrews 13:1-4. Again, this is taken out of the Bible study that we’re doing and all the verses that you’re writing through the Scripture Writing Challenge, which I know a bunch of you are doing that with me now. So thrilled to see that happen. We do a verse every single day of the week. The idea is that you’re putting pen to paper and really learning and studying the Word of God. The focus here is on how God doesn’t change. This is something that we talk about all the time at the podcast. Let’s look at it together. 

Chapter 13, starting in verse one— Keep on loving each other as brothers and sisters. Don’t forget to show hospitality to strangers, for some who have done this have entertained angels without realizing it! Remember those in prison, as if you were there yourself. Remember also those being mistreated, as if you felt their pain in your own bodies. Give honor to marriage, and remain faithful to one another in marriage. God will surely judge people who are immoral and those who commit adultery. [Hebrews 13:1-4 NLT]

In The Message, Eugene Peterson has a very interesting way of saying this. And again, I’ve told you guys, I like reading The Message occasionally just because I appreciated over the years, Dean Peterson’s perspective as he’s kind of, it’s like, it’s almost like what we do in relaying—like we’ll read a verse to our kids and then we’ll say, here’s what God’s saying. So this is sort of Eugene Peterson. I imagine him sort of almost talking to his kid. He’s saying, really what the Apostle Paul is saying is: Stay on good terms with each other, held together by love. Be ready with a meal or a bed when it’s needed. Why, some have extended hospitality to angels without ever knowing it! Regard prisoners as if you were in prison with them. Look on victims of abuse as if what happened to them had happened to you. Honor marriage, and guard the sacredness of sexual intimacy between wife and husband. God draws a firm line against casual and illicit sex. 

And then actually Eugene says God draws a firm line. I would take it one step farther and say the NLT says God will surely judge people who are moral and those who commit adultery. So Eugene’s right in saying that this is casual and elicit sex and God is saying— I’m not just going to draw a firm line. I’m going to judge you— things are not going to go well for you, like I’m always saying to my kids, in the land which the Lord your God has given to you—if you can’t obey me and if you can’t listen. And this is sort of what we’re going to be talking about a little bit today for the MomStrong International Bible study, and I want you to be thinking with me as we address it. Because the fruit of the Spirit that we’re talking about this week is faithfulness, and the verse that we began studying is in 1 Peter 3:1-2. This is a tough one. Likewise, wives, be subject to your own husbands, so that even if some do not obey the word, they may be won without a word by the conduct of their wives, when they see your respectful and pure conduct. 

You see everything about biblical womanhood. And this is a topic that’s not being addressed in the church very much right now. And we’re suffering for it because everything about biblical womanhood stems back to the beginning, in the garden, right? God passed every animal in the garden by Adam and he named them. And while Adam was examining every creature and choosing names, God was observing Adam and He was acknowledging that no animal was found to be a suitable companion for Adam. And so as a result, He placed Adam into a deep sleep and took a rib out of his side and created a woman to be a suitable helper, Adams companion. Can you just imagine Adam waking up from the greatest sleep of his life and rubbing his eyes in wonder as he sees the woman, this beautiful woman in front of him. 

You see God’s design for women was that she was made to be a missionary. And you see this in the verse that we just read in 1 Peter, he’s saying listen, wives be subject to your own husbands. So that even if some of them don’t obey the Word, even if some of them don’t know the Lord, they might be won over, without a word, by the conduct of their wives. We have an incredible role to play in the lives of our husbands, whether they are believers or not believers. And so the definition of that completeness, that we talk about in God creating woman to make man complete, has such a myriad of ways that it is displayed, right? But don’t misunderstand this— we were created to be born responders.

I said this last week, and I want you guys to really get this dep down into your heart. We receive seed from a man. We pour out our lives for months carrying this new human being, right? The beautiful thing that is pregnancy. You guys remember waddling and throwing up and avoiding the smell of your crockpot or whatever.  For lots of my pregnancies, my kids would laugh at me because I was so sensitive to smells and I would put the crockpot outside on the porch. So I’m addicted to my crockpot as you guys have been following me for years, you know, but I think back sometimes to those beautiful years of carrying a baby and remembering what a precious gift it is.  God was intentional in purpose and design, and everything God made He pronounced to be deeply, richly, satisfyingly good.

And that good design of God, the good design in making women the way that He made us also includes submission. And I think this is a bitter pill for a lot of people, to swallow, especially women. And it isn’t hard to understand why. In the church, the issue of submission in marriage is often misrepresented. It’s often misrepresented in the culture. It seems, at least to me, that women are taught that submission equals unqualified, unquestioning obedience to their husbands— and it leaves them feeling devalued and unloved. And you guys, this is not God’s heart. This isn’t God’s heart. 

Remember, I told you a long time ago that when I talked to my grandfather and my grandmother, when Jay and I were first married. We’re coming up on our 30th wedding anniversary this September, and we’ve been talking a lot about what life has brought us over 30 years— sometimes really great things and sometimes very difficult things. But one of the things we struggle with very early on in marriage was this idea of submission. I never saw it modeled well for me. My parents’ marriage was not a happy one. We went to church. But even at church, the message I got was exactly what I just said to you. That unqualified, unquestioning obedience, whether your husband was treating you kindly or whether he wasn’t, it didn’t matter— your role is just to be quiet and obey, and that isn’t God’s heart, this is untrue. 

And we talked about this a little bit last week. If you miss that study, you can still go ahead and download it. But others also fear that if women submit to their godly husbands, it’s going to lead to being abused. And I’ve heard this all across the country. And so as a result, a lot of churches ignore the topic altogether, which then results in a wrong understanding of God’s incredibly beautiful design for marriage. And so I don’t have time to go into the whole thing today. This is a great study for you to download. This is a wonderful time for you to become a member of MomStrong International and really dig deep with me in the study of submission as God has designed it.

And so we need to study it. We studied the concept of biblical submission because if we’re going to read the benefits of God’s design for marriage, we’ve got to understand His heart for it. You see, God made the roles unique to each gender. There are two genders, male and female. How do we know that? Because God said it in His Word, right? And those roles are really illuminated in a marriage. So that’s where we start. Remember in Genesis 2:18 that God realized it wasn’t good for man to be alone. So He decided to make a helper that was suitable. And many wives bristle at the idea of being a helper. And last week we talked about this and I want to just continue to talk about it because the Hebrew meaning for the word in the Bible refers to God as— He helps us.

Remember we talked about this last week. And so as we’re gonna reflect God’s heart, we reflect His heart in His design for us. God calls the Holy Spirit a helper. So this is not a role or a title of dishonor or even indifferent. It’s actually a role of honor that God has placed men and women together and said— this is how I created you to function. And I want us to understand that, because so often, it’s either abused or it’s misrepresented and sometimes both. And God is not unhealthy in His plans for us. And I want to just encourage you to lean into what God says is true because when we embrace what God says is true, and husbands when you love your wife like Christ loved the church— how did He love her? He laid down His life for her. And so faithfulness, which is what we’re exhibiting women when we say— I’m going to choose to believe that I am who God says I am. I’m who the Creator says I am. When we do that, our faithfulness that’s bred by the Spirit of God is filled by God’s Spirit and fills us with confidence and purpose— in our roles as male and female. 

And it only enhances what Scripture is calling us to in the practice and the beautiful embrace of biblical womanhood. So how good of God to produce fruit in us that empowers us to do what He has created us to do only better, right? And so this is not a god who dangles unannounced expectations above us and toys with what his plans are and whether or not we measure up. God is not secretive or unhealthy. He is holy and good, and He has equipped us to find Him. And so as we embrace faithfulness, we flourish in our role as women. And we’ve flourished in our role as believer’s. Faithfulness to the truth of God’s Word and to the truths of our design as God has defined it— results in freedom and liberty as we walk among our people and the world at large. 

So much as submission gnaws at our womanhood on fleshly days, which I get it, right? Needing help grates on a man. Who needs directions or a map, right? Both genders are filled with proud, broken sinners who need to embrace God’s design to function the best we can while we’re awaiting our move to heaven. And I think about this, I’m thinking about this more keenly today because my husband’s grandfather went home to be with the Lord a few days ago and we’ve been looking back over his life and it was a life of faithfulness. It was a life of saying—Lord, I’m going to embrace who you made me to be. I’m going to follow you with everything I have inside of me. 

And I’ll tell you what you guys, that legacy that we leave behind when we go home has a generational impact.

Women, listen to me, you are called to love your husband. You are called to love your husband. So what does that look like? God tells us in His Word— love is patient, it’s kind, it’s not jealous, it doesn’t brag, it is not arrogant. Love does not act unbecomingly. It does not seek its own. It is not provoked. It does not take into account a wrong suffered. Boy, that’s a tough one—let that sit for a second. It does not rejoice in unrighteousness, but rather it rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes, all things indoors, all things. So as we study, we’re going to be studying Titus 2 talking about what God instructs women to do and how our motivation and our reason for doing what God asks us to do. It’s such an important concept for us to understand, but as we talk about… there’s two other things I want to get to today. As we talked particularly about the subject of submission, a couple of things I want you to understand: First of all, a submission doesn’t mean, women, that you’re subject to other women’s husbands. All right? You’re not subject to the guys in your church because you’re a woman. We are only accountable before God to one other for the office of man after marriage, and it’s not our own fathers, it’s our spiritual shepherds–pastors and elders or deacons— or whatever your church calls them. And only then if what they are asking is according to God’s Word. 

So it’s important for you to understand. God is not saying that women are just subject to men carte blanche, okay? That’s why we read in the very beginning— women be subject to your own husbands. He doesn’t say be subject to somebody else’s husband. All right? And so I want you to understand that. And God asks older women in particular, and we’re going to study this more in depth through the Bible study, to come alongside and mentor younger women.

And so if you’ve been saved more than five minutes, you are an older woman in the Lord than somebody else. And as you grow, this is one of the things I’m so passionate about here at MomStrong International, we don’t want just, we don’t want to equip you just to equip you. We want to equip you so that you can get out there and disciple somebody else. All right? And so this is a great place to do it. The place of marriage is a fantastic place for you to be mentoring somebody else. So it’s important. We’re going to be studying too God’s design for sex. God’s word shows us the joy and delight of a physical union. And studies even have shown how important sex is in marriage. And so women love your husband sexually. God’s good design for sex was meant to bless and destress both of you. This is not just for your husband. All right? This is for both of you. 

And so as we talk about roles in marriage and we talk about submission, I was going to tell you about my grandfather. I got distracted— squirrel. I got distracted. When we asked my grandfather about submission, he said— Heidi and Jay, in a healthy marriage, the issue of submission will never come up because you innately understand that one supports the other. So if I’m not doing well, Jay’s not doing well. Conversely, if Jay’s not doing well, I’m not doing well. We really are one flesh, and so we want to love each other as God says to love each other and not for this idea of submission. We are called to submit to the leadership of our husbands, right? And it’s important that we do it.

So we’ll get to the nitty gritty. We’re going to look at Ephesians 5:22-30 and particularly Paul’s instruction in verse 22 because it’s important for us to understand. But what I want you to understand is if you’re in your marriage and you’re arguing about submission all the time…. and women, you’re just struggling with this and your husband’s like— sorry babe, I bought that car, deal with it on your husband. That is a wrong application of submission. And so the first thing to notice in Ephesians is that Paul is talking to wives. He’s not talking to husbands. It’s not the husband’s job to be sure that his wife submits to his leadership. It’s a wife’s role to do so voluntarily. And Paul understands this. And so he addresses to husbands that they are by no means off the hook for a responsibility in the hard parts of God’s instruction to us.

They are called to love their wives as sacrificially as Christ loved the church. And unfortunately, not all husbands desire to submit to the Lord and tenderly lead and love their wives. And sometimes sin takes root under the guise of Christianity. And you guys, this breaks the heart of God. This is not God’s heart. God wants us to be walking in right relationship with Him. And this is where the beautiful relationship of submission comes in. So I’ve got a ton more information on this at MomStrong International. We’re going to dig even deeper into that. We’re going to talk about what do we do if the thought of submitting is terrifying because we grew up like I did in a dysfunctional, maybe even an abusive home—and so we come into marriage with the wrong understanding of submission and we are afraid of it. I think that’s actually a justifiable fear. And so we want to center ourselves around the truth of God’s Word. All right? 

So this is an important aspect in how we deal with submission in marriage. The other question we’re going to address is— what if my husband’s not walking in right relationship with the Lord, right? These are great questions and we’re gonna address them at MomStrong International this month, focusing on marriage and God’s heart for marriage. But before I end today, really quickly, and pretty much I’m out of time, but I wanted to say—I’m also talking specifically to women who are in abusive situations. 

Listen, you guys, God does not teach us to remain in unsafe situations. All right? So I want to just encourage you, if somebody in your church or in your family is being abused, there’s a ton of places where you can go for help. Focus on the Family, one of my favorite places, you can call 1-800-A-FAMILY and speak with a licensed counselor and receive free counseling referral to someone in your area. You can contact the national domestic abuse hotline at 1-800-799-SAFE. 

And at MomStrong International we are really praying for you for clarity and for rescue as this study, even as we are going through the study, as the study was being written— God loves you. God loves you. And for a myriad of reasons, we can feel desperately alone in our marriages. And if we’re saved, we’re never alone. The Holy Spirit dwells in us richly. So cling to Him today. Talk to Him. Immerse yourself in the Word. And I want to just encourage you because God will sustain you no matter what a spouse says you deserve, God is clear. 

Husbands love your wives and do not be harsh at them, Colossians 3:19. In Psalm 9:9-10 it says, The Lord also will be a stronghold for the oppressed, A stronghold in times of trouble; And those who know Your name will put their trust in You, For You, O Lord, have not forsaken those who seek You.

Thus says the Lord, “Let not a wise man boast of his wisdom, and let not the mighty man boast of his might, let not a rich man boast of his riches; but let him who boasts boast of this, that he understands and knows Me, that I am the Lord who exercises lovingkindness, justice and righteousness on earth; for I delight in these things,” declares the Lord [Jeremiah 9:23-24]

And one more verse I want to read to you in Jeremiah 31:3, the Lord appeared to him from far away. I have loved you with an everlasting love; therefore I have continued my faithfulness to you.

Women. You are loved. God loves you and His heart that you’ll be married to a man who would love you the way God would want them to love you. And so women, I think the majority of you listening to this are in healthy marriages. Sometimes we get frustrated at their husbands, right?— moment of silence.

Yeah, you right. 

Sometimes we get frustrated. Sometimes our husbands are frustrated with us. We are called, women, to respect our husbands. Husbands are called to love their wives. This is part of the ambassadorship. So as we close our time in God’s Word this week, I want to look at one more area of worship that we can be offering our lives to the Lord. And that is the issue of dress. And I realize I’m over time today, but I can’t come back and visit this next week because I’ll be moving on. 

But our lives are about representing Him, right? This is the ambassadorship that we’ve talked about so many times here at the podcasts. And 2 Corinthians 5:20 we read for we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We speak for Christ when we plead, come back to God.

So what is an ambassador?

An ambassador, according to the dictionary, is an accredited diplomat sent out by a country as its official representative to a foreign country. The Bible says over and over again, this world is not our home. We are aliens in this world. We are in a foreign country and you are therefore Christ’s ambassadors. And did you know that God sees you that way? Women? Men? He does. The Apostle Paul made it very clear that we have a special role to fill for the kingdom. We are called to allow the gospel to flow through us, to allow God to make His appeal for salvation through us. 

And this is an incredible honor. It’s an incredible honor. If you’ve ever had the privilege of seeing the United States Embassy, you’ll notice right away that the pomp and circumstance of the whole place is evident everywhere. Everything from the way the floors shine to the way the table linens are placed— says we represent the best of the United States.

Nothing about the ambassador appoints to the ambassador. It’s all about the United States. And as Christ ambassadors, we represent Him. And so the question is, how are we doing? And the best place to know is to check our hearts before we check our hemline. And so we talk about modesty, which is what we’re going to be studying this in the digging deeper section of MomStrong International, what I want to do is encourage you that we dress in a way that pleases God because we are ambassadors for Him. We are ambassadors for the Lord. And so as we as we dig a little bit deeper into it, we don’t want to have a farcical approach to it. We don’t want to do things just for the sake of doing them. We’re not about legalism here at the podcast. Neither are we about liberty. 

I’ve said many times— the Devil doesn’t care which ditch it knocks you into so long as you’re in a ditch. And so we want to be studying God’s Word to show ourselves approved as workman who do not need to be ashamed, who rightly divide God’s Word. And so as ambassadors for Christ, and I don’t have time today, but when you download the study you’ll see where we take it. Just scroll down to digging deeper and you can follow along with me. But as Christ ambassadors, what trying to do is point people back to Him. And anything that distracts from that, anything from the way we present ourselves physically to the things that we say with our mouths, right? …. to the things we write on social media— these things matter to God. Before it is an issue of dress—modesty is an issue of the heart. Tim Challies said, “Modesty is a virtue that shows love to others and brings glory to God through appropriate dress.”  

So when we’re thoughtful about the way we dress, what we’re really saying is— Lord, I want to represent You well. So because our culture flaunts sexuality, when we’re modest, what we are saying is a resounding no to the idea of causing somebody else to stumble. And a resounding yes to saving our beautiful bodies for our husbands, either current or future. So as representatives of the Lord Jesus, let’s choose to honor Him in every area of our lives. You guys, it’s a way we can joyfully honor the One who gave His life for us. After all, we are His ambassadors. Let’s be the best we can because we love.

And remember you guys. It’s not about us. It’s about Jesus. 

I’ve so loved having you here with me today. I appreciate it. For more on this study, download the study MomStrongInternational.com. 

I’m really excited to have you guys back here with me on Friday, my friend Bill Jack is going to be back on the show and we’re going to be talking about all things culture. You will love it, so come on back and in the meantime, please leave reviews for the podcast. We just love hearing from you. We check those out. If you’ve got a question you want answered at Mailbox Monday, shoot us an email podcast@thebusymom.com. Have a great Wednesday everybody, and I’ll see you back here with my friend Bill Jack on Friday. 

Write to Heidi:
Heidi St. John
c/o Firmly Planted Family
11100 NE 34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682

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