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Does parenting tweens have you question your sanity? Well guess what — it’s not us, it’s them! Hal and Melanie Young, award-winning authors, join Heidi today on the podcast to talk about parenting tweens and how to maneuver through this often challenging season of parenting.

Hal and Melanie Young would like to offer you all a freebie – Christ-Centered Christmas. To get access to this freebie, head on over to their site RaisingRealMen.com/GuiftGuide (just scroll down to the bottom of that page).

Hal and Melanie Young are publishers, writers, bloggers, and speakers known for their Christ-centered focus and practical real-life stories. Authors of the Christian Small Publishers Book of the Year, Raising Real Men: Surviving, Teaching,  and Appreciating Boys. They have also authored No Longer Little: Parenting Tweens with Grace and Hope and the Amazon bestseller Love, Honor, and Virtue: Gaining or Regaining a Biblical Attitude Toward Sexuality. 

You can connect with them at RaisingRealMen.com for all sorts of resources – from wholesome gifts to parenting books, NoLongerLittle.com, and on their podcast at HalAndMelanie.com/radio.

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TRANSCRIBED PODCAST BELOW

Good morning everybody, this is Heidi St. John. Today is Friday, December the 14th.

Welcome to the Heidi St. John podcast, today is Meet-My-Friend-Friday and my friends Hal and Melanie Young are here today. We’re going to talk a little bit about the mystery of parenting pre-teens.  Stick around, I think you’re going to be encouraged!

So, for those of you who are keeping up with me over at  MomStrong International we are just under 10,000 subscribers now. We’re trying to hit that goal by the end of the year. It’s not too late to jump into the Scripture Writing Challenge!

We are right in the middle of our study for the month of December, In Search of Joy, and you can invite your kids and your teens to join you. You can sign up today at MomStrongInternational.com.

All right. I want to encourage you guys this morning as we’re going to be talking a little bit about parenting teens. And I love my guests today – Hal and Melanie Young are on the podcast with me today.

They are the award-winning authors of Raising Real Men, No Longer Little and the Amazon bestseller Love, Honor, and virtue. They are publishers, writers, bloggers, and speakers known for their Christ-centered focus and practical real-life stories. They are also my friends – which I noticed didn’t make it into their biography – but I’ll forgive them :).

So we’re going to be talking a little bit about just the ups and downs of parenting teens. They sent me their book to preview several months ago and I love the description of it. Tell me if this doesn’t resonate with you guys all right?! This is the description for No Longer Little

No one tells you what to expect.

Right? We’re talking about tweens here.

Your 9-year-old that loves school suddenly takes 3 hours to get math done. Don’t even ask about everything else. The11-year-old that loves to run errands now can’t remember the one thing you told them to bring you long enough to get out of the room.
And the 13-year-old… EMOTIONAL TURMOIL. Change your shirt before you leave, you tell your son, but he explodes. You don’t care about me! This is my favorite shirt! You’re always criticizing me!

Oh my goodness – I can go on and on and on. The Young’sreally get parenting tweens and I’m so excited that they’re here today. Hal and Melanie, welcome to the podcast!

[Melanie Young] It is delightful to be here Heidi.

[Hal Young] Thanks for having us. We appreciate it.

[Heidi St. John] Well, we’re so glad that you’re here and I know that this is going to resonate with our audience because you guys have been around the parenting block a few times. Tell us a little bit about your family.

[Hal Young] Well we’ve got eight kids. We’ve got four of them grown, and we’ve got four still at home.

[Melanie Young] Six boys, in a row, and then two girls at the end.

[Heidi St. John] Six boys in a row – woo!

[Melanie Young] Yea, and it took us a while going through this tween stage to realize that it wasn’t us that was crazy. It was them!

[Heidi St. John] Right?! But you know what happens is – you don’t start off crazy but you end up there.

[Melanie Young] Isn’t that truth!

[Hal Young] Well that’s what Sam Levison said you know – insanity is hereditary. You catch it from your kids.

Well yeah! And that’s a really critical thing about this time period because when they lose their minds – you can’t. You can’t join them in that party. You’ve got to step off the rollercoaster.

[Melanie Young] Well somebody has got to be the adult around here and it’s not going to be them.

[Heidi St. John] That’s exactly right. My husband and I have a saying – we like to tell people that little kids wreck your house, but big kids wreck your mind. Do you agree?

[Melanie Young] Oh yeah!

[Hal Young] I think we can go with that, sure! Yeah.

[Melanie Young] This tween stage though, is one of the things that if you don’t handle it right it will wreck your mind and your life. Because we’ve just seen again and again that the challenges of this stage…

Many parent child relationships are broken during the tween stage. And if they are broken then the teens tend to get worse and worse. And that’s why the parenting advice is aimed at parents of teens – because so many people have blown it, and now they’re in this nightmare of disbond. But really, if you can get through the tween stage with your parent child relationship intact – then generally the teens get better and better.

[Heidi St. John] Yeah. I think it’s really true. I noticed that when, you know, our oldest daughter is 27 – so I remember very clearly when she went into the stage I was like – wait a second. We were getting along yesterday. What you know what’s different it really it kind of literally does happen overnight. Do you think so?

[Hal Young] Yeah, yeah. And you weren’t expecting it. Were you? I mean when this first happened with us, you know we’re thinking – OK the teenage years that all starts when their voices crack, when they develop a figure, whatever – you know boys a girl- whatever you’re dealing with. Nobody told us – no actually, that’s kind of at the end of that transitional gateway. That really, your turmoil is going to start a couple of years before you see the first whisker, before their voices change.

[Melanie Young]  Yeah well, they still look like kids and that’s what’s so gob-smacking about it – because you’ve got this kid that looks like a kid and suddenly they’re acting like some kind of hormonal nut.

[Heidi St. John] Right.

[Melanie Young] If you look at their biology – did you know that kids can have up to 50 times the testosterone or estrogen they will as adults?

[Heidi St. John] That doesn’t even survivable.

[Hal Young] No. Let that sink in. I mean just register on that. I mean think the worst hormonal periods of your grown up life and then multiply it by dozens and think – how do how does anybody make it through that?

[Melanie Young] Yeah yeah. Is it any wonder she’s in a puddle? And is it any wonder he’s angry? It’s a wonder he’s not an ax murderer

[Hal Young] right

[Heidi St. John] Yeah, yeah. So when a parent comes to you – and I think it’s good to shoot this disclaimer. Because you guys are a homeschooling family and I obviously and the homeschooling mom —  homeschooling does not protect you from puberty. It really doesn’t. And no doubt many parents they think – oh I just homeschool my kids -They’re never gonna talk back to me. We’re never going to have all these issues that everybody else’s kids have. But it just isn’t true. Right? Because hormones come to everybody.

[Hal Young] Somebody told me a long time ago – the decision to teach your kids home does not heal original sin. And I mean, you’re going to hit you’re going to hit puberty – and the thing of it is – if it’s happening at the big consolidated middle school somewhere miles across town — you may not see it hour after hour in every instance. But when you’re homeschooling – you get the front row seat, and you get to experience the whole thing. Which on the one hand you think – oh no. But on the other hand – that means you’re there and you can deal with it.

[Melanie Young] And you know that’s really.. I’m glad you said that about original sin, Hal – because the spiritual part of this is huge! They’ve got all these emotions going on – that are…

Their emotions are out of control, they’re insane. And then school. And their minds are going through a remodelling process where the part of their brain that governs executive functions is remodeling – so like they can’t focus. They can’t remember what they’re doing. School is much harder.

Well, the combination of the brain changes and the emotional changes bring about spiritual doubt. And it’s so common for kids to struggle spiritually during this time and we’ve got to be there for them.

[Hal Young] That was something that was something that really frightened us as Christian parents. Because – you know I think about our early…

Like our first child – we were going to do everything right. You know, we drilled him in scripture, in the Catechism, we taught hymns – I mean we did everything the Christian parenting was supposed to do. We checked all the boxes. And then at nine years old he suddenly announced – I think I’m an atheist!

[Melanie Young]  I about drive off the road, by the way.

[Hal Young] And we just wanted to know – what went wrong? Well, it wasn’t really what went wrong in the matter. I mean the situation is – he reached this developmental stage where, you know – when they’re six years old and they’re like – mom and dad love Jesus and I want to love Jesus like mom and dad do.

And six-years-old – that’s a beautiful time.

And then when they get to be nine, ten, eleven – it’s like they get another page in their brain that says – there’s other opinions about this. How do I know that Mom and Dad are right?

And they start questioning things. And really – we need to – instead of doubling down saying “hey you know how can you dare question” –

We need to say.. this is like that parent in the scriptures who says – I believe. Help my unbelief, give me a reason to believe. Give me something to hang on to here.

[Melanie Young] Oh, it’s the perfect time for apologetics, for talking through those hard questions with your kids. For letting them see that, you know, they don’t need to be afraid to ask questions because our faith can handle it.

[Heidi St. John] So good, and so many parents – when your kids do that – especially because you’re used to this compliant child – right? And the one thing that you hold dear, that you’ve been praying for your whole life – they start to question things and a lot of parents will freak out. And what I hear you saying is – don’t do that, don’t freak out will you just.

[Hal Young] This is just such a critical, fertile time, in the life of your child and in your relationship as a parent with the child. You know this is a time when you are really going to get a lot of work done – if you recognize, and embrace, and it lean into.

[Melanie Young] Yeah, lean into it don’t freak out. Instead grab that opportunity to talk to them about these hard questions, to walk them through it. And the cool thing about it is they actually can develop an adult faith at this age. A faith that can carry them through the teen years, and college, and the young adult years – without the bumps in the road that we see in so many kids raised in Christian homes – that didn’t solidify their faith when they were pre-teens.

[Hal Young] And see when they get to this point, when they’re starting to gain an adult’s ability to reason – then when you’re explaining things, you’re not only rationalizing what you’re doing – but you’re helping them understand the process they need to go through as they start to manage their own lives more and more. As they start to make decisions about – how do I evaluate a situation? How do I deal with a troubled relationship? How do I? Guess what – how do I apologize and ask forgiveness when I’ve done something wrong? You know, we’re modeling that behavior sometimes.

[Melanie Young] And so it’s a change. It’s a change in your parenting. You’re not letting him get away with things, but you’re just changing how you do it so that you can build the kind of relationship that can last into their adult years. Does that make sense?

[Heidi St. John] It makes perfect sense and I think for the parent who’s listening to this, and I know I’m I’m as I’m listening to you talk – I’m replaying in my head conversations we’ve had with our teens over the years, with our pre-teens. And I remember – I can remember several – I would call them pre-teen fails.

Can you guys talk to the parents who are listening to this right now – and they’ve just had a heated argument with their child, and they’re feeling like they’re failing, and they’re not really sure how to pick it up and keep moving. Maybe it’s been a habit of getting drawn into the drama. Like we have we have a saying in our house – No Drama Mama! Just because you’re engaged in drama doesn’t mean I need to engage. But sometimes we do, sometimes they hurt us, sometimes they say things that trigger us and we’re just like – I cannot believe I just came out of my mouth.

Talk to the mom or the dad who’s who’s feeling pretty discouraged right now in their parenting.

[Melanie Young] You know what? God is full of grace. There is much grace – and when we’re His people, when we’ve repented of our sin, and trusted Him to save us – He already loves us. Already is pleased with us because He sees the righteousness of Christ. So go to the Father, and get on your knees, and say – I need help. I repent of how I handled this and Lord – I need you to help me to control my tone.

I have a hot temper, and I’m usually the one that loses it in our house. And so many times I’ve had to apologize to the Lord and then go apologize to the child. And then start again. The wonderful thing about relationships is they’re made in the moments, in the little things, in the walking up and putting your arm around a child, in listening when they interrupt you instead of going and going “mmhmm” and going on with what you were doing online, in being interested in them – and just showing genuine delight that they are your child. And you can do so much rebuilding in those moments.

And if you blow this moment get the next moment right.

[Heidi St. John]  I love that. And I think what I’m hearing from you is it’s never too late. It’s never too late to get back in there, to show that affection, and really want to be involved in the life of a child.

You guys have lots of books that you’ve written, lots of resources for parenting – and this book in particular No Longer Little is available on Amazon right now and also at your website. Where can listeners find you so that they can download some of this information, and then I want to talk about a freebie that you guys have up for Christmas.

[Melanie Young] Okay. No Longer Little you can find it NoLongerLittle.com. Lots of reviews there. You can check out all of our books and resources from wholesome gifts to parenting books, and advice, is at RaisingRealMen.com. We have a podcast at HalAndMelanie.com/radio.

And we’ve got a freebie! We have a book called Christ Centered Christmas where we share a lot of our family’s heart about how to make Christmas really about Jesus. And yet to thoroughly enjoy it and celebrate it.

A couple came up to a conference recently and said that it just freed them up because they’d been told not to celebrate Christmas, that it was a pagan thing – and they read our book and they said we had the best Christmas ever.

So you can get it free at RaisingRealMen.com/GuiftGuide. That’s our gift guide for boys that we put out every year. If you scroll down to the bottom you can join our newsletter list and get Christ Centered Christmas free. It’s 72 pages of goodness.

[Heidi St. John] I love it. And for those of you who are driving right now, or in the shower – don’t stop what you’re doing, keep doing it. I will link back to all things Hal and Melanie Young in the show notes today. You guys thank you for coming on the show today. It is always such a pleasure to have you and I can’t wait for our listeners to get more acquainted with your ministry.

[Hal Young]  Heidi, it’s been a blessing. Thank you so much.

[Melanie Young] And Heidi we just love your heart. You know, we’re about the same thing – we’re about Jesus. And just thank you so much for having us. It’s been a joy to talk to you.

[Heidi St. John] Thank you. if you guys want more information about Hal and Melanie Young go to HeidiStJohn/Podcast. Also – we have just started transcribing the podcast took me 700 episodes to get there. But hey – we’re doing it now. So if you want the show notes in a transcription format- they’re available for you! Just keep scrolling down past our normal notes and you’ll see the whole thing transcribed.

Hope you guys have a fantastic weekend! Thanks for listening today. Don’t forget to leave a review for this podcast at iTunes and I’ll see you back here on Monday!

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Recently, contemporary Christian music artist Lauren Daigle fumbled her way through what is arguable THE question that the church is grappling with: “Is homosexuality a sin?” But what if we all were ready to give an answer? Join Heidi today as she turns our attention to the our own responsibility to know and share the hope we have in Jesus with the world.

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TRANSCRIBED PODCAST BELOW

Hey Everybody, this is Heidi St. John! Welcome to the Heidi St. John podcast!

Today is Monday, December 10th – it’s episode number 699. I have gotten so many emails, and Facebook messages, and Instagram posts from those of you who have been wanting me to comment on the recent interview that Lauren Daigle gave to a radio show about homosexuality. It’s a pretty deep topic, but I think it bears talking about so stick around, I think you’re going to be encouraged.

All right you guys. We got a lot of stuff to talk about today. Before I jump into it, I want to say hi to everybody who is listening to this in the shower because I keep hearing from you – so rinse your hair. 🙂

It is a joy for me to be coming into your homes, and into your hearts, three days a week. I want to thank you so much for leaving reviews for this podcast over at iTunes, for sharing it. God is doing an incredible work here at the podcast. It really is my heart and the heart of my husband to see a generation of women actually become strong in the Lord and in the power of His might. It’s really are going to be talking about today. Obviously what Lauren Daigle said is going to be the topic of our conversation.

But honestly, every single one of us has a platform. We all have a responsibility – and I want to encourage you to know the word of God for yourself. It’s the reason why we started MomStrong International. We’re coming up on 10,000 members there. It’s our goal to get to that point by the end of the year and you can help us do that – simply by sharing what’s happening over at MomStrong International. Talk to people about the FREE Scripture Writing community that’s there and we hope that you guys will join us.

We are so excited about what God is doing. He’s doing an incredible work. And He does it as we come together and decide – hey, we’re going to be the people that God says we are. We’re not going to listen anymore to what the world says. We’re not going to take our identity from what the world says – rather we’re going to take it from the Word of God and we’re going to see ourselves the way that God sees us. So that’s what I want to encourage you to do today.

All right. It’s been in the news all over the place. You had to be living under a rock if you haven’t been hearing about Lauren Daigle. So several weeks ago Lauren, who is a prolific Christian music writer – she’s got an incredible voice – very much like Adele. I could listen to her all day long. I actually love her music.

I heard that she was going to be going on the Ellen DeGeneres show. And unlike some of my critics, I actually thought that was great. I love to see her embrace the people around her in the way that God would have her due. To use her platform to share the love of God with people. And we need to be very careful, men and women, before we start judging people who don’t know the Lord and are outside the church.

In 1 Corinthians 5:12-18, The Bible says (this is the NIV)

What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?

That’s what we’re gonna hang on to today at 1 Corinthians 5:12.

What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?

So I keep hearing people say, you know – don’t judge lest you be judged. You guys have heard me talk about this before It’s a terrible misuse of that verse. We are called to righteous judgment. But you can’t hold somebody to account for sin, particularly when it’s a sin that God’s word speaks against – so clearly like homosexuality but the culture has absolutely embraced it.

How can we expect someone to believe that what God says is sin if they don’t have the power of the Holy Spirit? So for Lauren Daigle, to get on the Ellen DeGeneres show – you guys I’m praying for Ellen DeGeneres.

She’s hilarious for one thing, ridiculously talented – I’d love to see her come to faith in the Lord Jesus. She would have an incredible story to tell of God’s redemptive power in her life. So I hope that we’re praying for her. We should be.

You shouldn’t condemn somebody for going on her show. I actually don’t understand the condemnation coming from the Christian community that way. We love to be Pharisees, we do.

I read a book a long time ago called Twelve Steps For A Recovering Pharisee Like Me. And I loved it because the author of that book was so clearly saying – we got issues. The church has issues. And unfortunately, Lauren Daigle – you know, she should have prepared for this. You know she was interviewed after that, predictably. And of course, people want to know what do you think about homosexuality.

So she is on The Domenick Nati Show, or Nadi – however, he says his name – and she offered her comments as to whether or not she believed that homosexuality is a sin.

Now listen, this woman has enjoyed a whole lot of mainstream success in recent years because she’s ridiculously talented, and she struggled with this question.

So they asked her just point blank: Do you feel that homosexuality is a sin? And here’s what she said: “You know, I can’t honestly answer on that.”

She said adding that she had “too many people I love” that “are homosexual”. But she didn’t stop there. “I don’t know” – she went on to say “I actually had a conversation with someone last night about it”. She continued, “I can’t say one way or the other. I’m not God. So when people ask a question like that that’s what my go to is like. Like, I just say read the Bible and find out for yourself. And when you find out let me know because I’m learning too.”

All right. So a couple of things. I agree with her – she said that she had been deeply saddened that people criticized her for appearing on a show that was hosted by someone who’s openly homosexual.

I was also sad about that because for me she had an opportunity. She sang about the gospel on that show. I was thrilled. I was like – Get after it girl. Go for it.

But I will say I’m very disappointed in her answer, And I don’t want to make this about Lauren so much today as I want to make it about us. Because every single one of us, including myself – every single person listening to this, every teenager, every father, every mother, every grandmother, every single one of you has been given influence.

You have influence with your family, you have influence with the people that you work with, and the Bible says that we are called to give an answer for the hope that lies within us. And I was disappointed to Lauren’s answer mostly because she said she “can’t answer that”

Well if you know your Bible you can answer it. It is not a hard question. And I think we would do ourselves a favor as believers if we would stop making these questions about us. This question isn’t about Lauren Daigle. It’s about the Word of God. It’s about what God says in His Word. And so when she said – “I can’t honestly answer that” – I was like – Oh Lauren, yes you can! Read your Bible!

She doesn’t have to say “Well I think homosexuality is a sin”. What she should have said was “well God says it’s a sin just like He says adultery is a sin, and greed is a sin, and lust is a sin, and lying is a sin.

Unfortunately, in the culture, we’ve elevated homosexuality in the Christian community to be like – THE sin.

So now we have to argue about it. But the Bible says that all of our sin separates us from God, that without the sacrifice of Jesus, that all of our righteousness is as filthy rags toward God. We are separated by sin, all kinds of sin, of which homosexuality is clearly one. And I keep hearing people trying to make theological arguments for homosexuality. Listen you guys have to do theological and doctrinal backflips to say that homosexuality is not a sin. It is. Read Romans for goodness sake.

Read the book of Romans, start with Romans 1. And you don’t need me to help you read it. Read it for yourself. I do appreciate that she said go read your Bible. I kind of want to say to Lauren – you should read your Bible too before you get on.

She knew she was going to be asked that question. It’s a very simple question to answer. It’s a very simple question to answer.

I posted a quote by Rich Mullins on my Facebook page the other day and I said – why are we so surprised at Lauren Daigle struggled to stand up for the truth amidst the crushing pressure of celebrity? And it is crushing. She has used her platform many times to announce the Lord. This was nothing different, except for – I think she really did buckle under the pressure of celebrity. It’s tough when you’re in that situation, so I can have grace for her – listen to what Rich Mullins said.

I think he said it best. He said, and I’m quoting now:

It’s so funny being a Christian musician. It always scares me when people think so highly of Christian music, Contemporary Christian music especially. Because I kind of go, I know a lot of us, and we don’t know jack about anything. Not that I don’t want you to buy our records or come to our concerts. I sure do. But you should come for entertainment. If you really want scriptural nourishment, you should go to church…you should read the Scriptures.

And that’s really what I want to encourage you to do. Read your Bible. It’s time for us to stop looking to contemporary Christian musicians as theologians because we keep getting let down over and over again. And because the world esteems that kind of celebrity, we’re gonna keep looking to these people. And I just wanna encourage you – if you’ve got a platform – know your Bible. You’ve got to know your Bible.

Had they took direct aim at that Lauren Daigle in in her question in the question that they posed to her and her perplexing response has sort of set the Christian world on fire – and I think it doesn’t need to do that.

I think we can look each other go – wow that was a lesson for every single one of us.

There’s another young man, a colleague, who wasn’t afraid to call sin sin and rebuke compromise publicly. He posted this on his Facebook page. He said:

“So Christians everywhere are apparently upset with Lord Daigle because she didn’t stand up for truth, but the problem is that they just can’t seem to remember the last time they did either. People are writing to me everywhere today because in many circles I’m known as a prophet who speaks out with boldness courage. Pastors and saints are asking me to come out tonight and blast Lauren Daigle. Well I’ve been in prayer about it all day and I feel absolutely zero unction from the Holy Ghost to address Lauren Daigle. I feel tremendous unction to address the hypocrisy in the body of Christ.”

And I kind of –  I am disappointed with Lauren – but I do agree with this young man. Because unless we’ve been in that situation ourselves we really don’t have any idea how we’d perform. But we need to know the Word so that we can be – what? Ready. We want to be ready.

I guess I’m disappointed because I feel like she should have been ready because she knew that that question – surely that was gonna be asked of her. But we don’t know. Maybe God wants to use her voice to bring hope and healing and faith to a hurting world. The messages in her song are wonderful. Her voice is angelic. God is using her, let’s continue to pray for her.

I would hate to see her become another casualty of the Christian culture wars. And we can certainly take a lesson from Lauren. And I think the lesson is – we need to be ready. We need to be ready to give an answer for the hope that lies within us.

I think the enemy would love to see us jumping on the train, but I’d rather we learned a lesson from it, and we pray for her. God has given her a platform and I just, I pray to God that she knows His word and that she can rightly defend it when the hard questions come. And they will come. And they’re gonna come for every single one of you. And I know that a lot of you have written questions to me about this particular episode and this happens all the time, right?

I talked about a book written by a very popular artist right now, an author rather. And I did a podcast on it several months ago talking about her – basically, she was talking about her love for diversity and tolerance, and that’s our jam, and blah blah blah.

And I’m so concerned because I’m watching these people get out there and they talk about Christianity. Really their books are secular. We read it and we don’t have the discernment to say – that’s actually a secular book. We’re not going back to the Word of God. Which brings me to a question that I’m an address from Mailbox Monday really quickly from a listener. And she said –

Heidi my husband and I left the Methodist Church two years ago, prompted by the Holy Spirit, after seeing what’s happening at the national level – beginning to have such a significant trickle down effect in our small town country church. We found a wonderful non denominational Bible based church that God uses to rock our world. But a friend who still attends a Methodist Church recommended a book for our book club. It’s called Everybody Always by Bob Goff. I researched him before beginning the book.

OK so first of all – hats off to you. This is what we should be doing. So whether it’s Heidi St. John that writes a book or Bob Goff writes a book — we should be researching, find out who these people are. So she says:

I researched him before beginning the book after learning that the local Methodist church was using it for their Sunday morning small group study class. I finished chapter one, glanced at the rest of book – can’t find one lick of Scripture in the whole stinking book. The goal he states is “What I’m trying to do right now is make my faith simple”

And so this listener writes:  

My question is – how does an author explain or discuss faith without any scripture, including only vague references to the Bible?

So, here’s the thing, sweet girl, and I appreciate you writing this. Here’s the thing -this is the culture that we find ourselves in in right now. We we want to talk about our faith to make it “simple”. What we’re doing is we’re watering down the truth of the Word of God in order to make it palatable to the culture.

And anytime you see someone do that – it worries me. I did read Everybody Always and that would be a book I would probably give someone who didn’t know the Lord who – maybe was interested in faith. And I love the message of his book. I love his attitude. There were a lot of things I liked about I agree with you. Not very good representation of scripture. If your goal is to study scripture. But I don’t really think that was his goal.

I was asked several years ago to speak for a conference (wasn’t a Christian conference) and they asked me – hey, could you please not proselytize. You know, we think you’re a great speaker we want you to talk about marriage and family,  but we really don’t want you to give an altar call or anything like that.

And I’d been hired by these people. And so I said – absolutely I can do that – but boy I’ll tell you what you guys – I went to prayer before it. I was like, Father help me! I don’t know how to do this without You. I can’t. I can’t. Everything about my life is awash with Scripture, everything.

I don’t how people do this world without Jesus. Really, apart from Him, we don’t have any wisdom except for what the world offers us – and for goodness sake look around! It’s not helping. And the Lord so clearly said – you are the fragrance of Christ, be the fragrance of Christ. How do we how do we start being the fragrance of Christ? They’ll know we’re Christians by our love.

Which brings me back to the verse that we started off with this morning in 1 Corinthians 5:12.

What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church?

We are called to judge those inside the church. That’s why the criticism of Lauren Daigle, that’s why the criticism of so many these Christian authors who are giving kind of a watered down version of the truth of the word of God.

But I want us to be careful that we reserve our judgment until after we’ve really said – Father open my eyes. What am I missing? They’ll know we’re Christians by our love.

I’m hoping that every single one of us that’s listening to this, myself included – because I’ll tell you what — even for somebody with a smaller platform like mine, the pressure is enormous. It’s enormous.

I get hate mail on a regular basis. People have threatened my life because of my stand for the Lord Jesus. I can’t even imagine being in Lauren Daigle shoes. What would happen to her? And I don’t know what went on in her mind. Maybe she doesn’t know the Word of God, I don’t know. But I’m going to pray for her because she has platform. And we are called to be salt and light, to speak the truth in love, not to water it down.

And so I just want to encourage you – rather than just turning the spotlight on everybody else all the time – can we also shine it on our own lives? What are we doing in the privacy of our homes? How are you guys dealing with the things that you’re watching on Netflix? and with the number of glasses of wine that you’re having with your dinner?

We make so many excuses and we love to judge other people – but I’m telling you what – the Lord has been so strongly reminding me, especially this Christmas season — it starts with me.

Your witness starts with you. If you want your kids to walk with the Lord, if you want people around you to see God at work in you – walk with them. He doesn’t want to be an accessory to your life. He wants to be your life. And so before we look to Christian celebrities, or Christian music artists, or Christian authors – we should look to God’s Word. God is still at work.

I’ve been watching, as many of you have over the last week, the funeral service for George Herbert Walker Bush.  Looking over his life, and his marriage, and his legacy now. And it’s interesting to me to note that the thing that he said gave him the greatest joy – wasn’t an accomplishment, it wasn’t meeting with the world leader, it wasn’t being president – it was knowing that his kids were having an impact.

An really, God wants us to walk in right relationship with Him so that we can share the Gospel. Our lives should share the Gospel.

I heard it quoted once that we should share the Gospel all the time – and if necessary, use words. And I want my life to be like that. So before we end the podcast today I’m going to go ahead and pray for all of us, myself included, because this world is not our home. We’re just passing through and God wants to walk with us every step of the way until we step into glory. and we hear – Well done.

So would you bow your heads in prayer with me?

Lord Jesus, I thank you for Lauren Daigle. I thank you for the platform that you’ve given her. Father would you be with her? Would you give her your words? She clearly has your heart for the lost and she’s got the love piece right. And Lord, as we talk about standing up in the culture, and speaking the truth, and and being an ambassador for you – Lord I pray that we would all get the whole piece right. It’s the truth in love any other way is not your way – but I pray that you give me boldness and temper it with love, and mercy, and kindness. Father thank you for every person that’s listening to this podcast right now, every single person who’s within earshot of my voice.

Lord, would your Holy Spirit just convict us. Lord, show us the areas of our lives that we need to be more like you. I thank you for the opportunity you’ve given us, Lord, to speak the truth. I thank you for social media. I thank you for the many places that we have opportunity to be salt and light, and Lord – I pray you’d help us do it.

Lord we love you, we want to honor you with our lives and with our words – so Father, to quote your Word

Let the words of my mouth, and the meditation of my heart, be acceptable in your sight, O LORD, our rock, and our redeemer. [Psalm 19:14]

Thanks for listening everybody, today to the podcast! I want to remind you to head on over to MomStrongInternational.com – we just started a brand new week – it’s called In Search of Joy. We have revamped the Bible Study – I think you’re going to love it! You can start a MomStrong Group in your home, you can start one in your church, you can study it by yourself. Either way, we want to help you get into God’s Word and encourage the people around you to know His Word betterm and to walk in right relationship with God.

Thanks for listening everybody and I’ll see you back here on Wednesday!

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“Something within us changes when we understand and live as though Jesus cares about how we feel. And he does care!” Susie explains in Fully Alive. “He cares if our souls feel empty or are in distress. He cares if our bodies feel sick. He cares if our hearts ache
or we are afraid. He is with us, and he offers to teach us.”

Susie Larson is a popular media voice, bestselling author, and national speaker. A veteran of the fitness field, she has twice been voted a top-ten finalist for the John C. Maxwell Transformational Leadership Award. Susie’s passion is to see women awakened to the value of their souls, the depth of God’s love, and the height of their calling in Christ Jesus.
Susie Larson is the author of sixteen books including Your Sacred Yes, Your Beautiful Purpose, Your Powerful Prayers, and her latest book: Fully Alive: Learning to Flourish – Mind, Body & Spirit (October 2018, Bethany House, a division of Baker Books).

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TRANSCRIBED PODCAST BELOW

Hey everybody, this is Heidi St. John.  Welcome to the podcast today is Friday, December 7th. It’s episode number 698. You guys are familiar with it – Meet My Friend Friday – and today Susie Larson joins us.  She’s got a message of hope and healing for you – stick around, I think you’re going to be encouraged.

All right. So you guys made it through the Thanksgiving holiday and we are zooming through on our way to Christmas.

I want to say thank you to everybody who’s been joining us at MomStrong International we are studying for the month of December: In search of Joy. We’re talking about what it means to be filled with joy. Joy doesn’t come from a grocery store, or department store, or even from a holiday.

Joy comes from the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit. It’s Jesus Christ alive in us. It’s the undeniable presence of God in our lives. It’s knowing that we’re right with God. And so, as we study being In search of Joy, this month for December, I hope you’ll join us! It’s not too late – you can jump in. We’ve just started on Monday, and so we’re finishing up our first week. Find us at MomStrongInternational.com.

All right. I have a friend on the podcast with me today. She’s new to the podcast so I’m excited to introduce her to you. 

Susie Larson is a popular media voice. She’s an author, a speaker, a show host. She is a beautiful woman who loves the Lord and she has an incredible story to tell. She and her husband, Kevin, have been married for over 30 years. They have three grown sons and three beautiful daughters in law. And I am just really excited to welcome Susie Larson to the show today. Susie I’m so glad you’re here!

[Susie Larson] Heidi, such an honor to join you. Thanks for having me.

[Heidi St. John] You’re very welcome. So you have a brand new book out,  you’re the author of – what, over 16 books is that right?

[Susie Larson] I’m working on number 16 right now. Yes.

[Heidi St. John] That’s amazing. I read Your Sacred Yes and Your Beautiful Purpose and now you’ve got a new book Fully Alive:  Learning to Flourish–Mind Body and Spirit.

I have a whole bunch of questions for you. But before I dive into it, since it’s the first time that you’ve been on the podcast with me let’s do a little Susie101. Does that sound alright with you?

[Susie Larson] Sounds good.

[Heidi St. John] All right. So Susie, what drives you? When you think about, when you wake up in the morning, and the ministry that God has called you to – what just makes your heart sing?

[Susie Larson] Wow that’s a great question! Well, I just know myself. I lived in captivity for so long. Even as a believer, I wasn’t free. I had a lot of fear. I had a lot of anxiety around issues. Some traumas had happened when I was a child that really carried into my adulthood. And once I started to really contend for the promises of God, and once I was really confronted with a question – Are you a believer just because you secured your eternity? or you believe or because you actually believe this stuff?

When I started to gain my freedom, I started to just get a thirst for the impossible, truly!

What gets me out of bed every day is that I do believe that there are multitudes of Christians who live and die, realize they were saved but not free. I specifically speak to women – I know men tune into to my show and read my stuff once in a while – but you’ll notice I write and speak mainly to women. I want people free, and want women free. And I know that we have to contend for some of the things God has promised us.

[Heidi St. John] It’s an amazing realization, you and I have a lot in common in that way. It’s that walking with the Lord I wrote in Becoming MomStrong – that I had walked with God my whole life, right?  I came to know Him when I was a young girl, and I knew about Him, and I knew His word – but I didn’t know anything of His healing. I didn’t know about His healing, and I didn’t understand about the freedom that’s offered just through that relationship with the Lord. So that’s amazing.

All right, I got another question for you – because we’re going to come back to what makes you get out of bed in the morning. I got another question for you.

You’ve been married to Kevin, right? for – did I read right? For about 30? Is it more than 30 years?

[Susie Larson] Yep. This spring with 34 years and we actually have a grandson now too – so that’s pretty awesome.

[Heidi St. John] Where did you guys meet?

[Susie Larson] We met at a church singles retreat that neither one of us were supposed to be at. And it’s sort of funny because when he first walked in I was helping with registration – and I judged him immediately because he’s like 6 foot 3 – and he has kind of a swagger and I have this aversion to prideful people. And I judged him as being prideful. And he just has a swagger because he’s big. He’s super humble and wonderful. But yeah, we joke about that. I didn’t like them right away. But then I did like them because I married him.

[Heidi St. John] Oh I love that! You know what? I also did not like my husband when I first met him for a very similar reason! He was in a rock and roll, like a Christian rock and roll band, and he said something to me – and I look back I’m like “Oh my word” you know – me and my 19-year-old self. But I always tell women –  listen to that first impression – you could be wrong. You might to go back and revisit that.

And what neck of the woods are you hailing from today?

[Susie Larson] We live in Minneapolis, and we were both born and raised here. And I cannot even tell you how much I dislike our long winters, but we have huge families and our lives are here. And so, this is where we are blooming and so this is where we live.

[Heidi St. John] Your blooming where you’re planted. I love it. I love it. All right, let’s talk a little bit about your newest book. I loved it by the way because I just was sharing with Susie a few minutes ago off the air is – what I love about your ministry is that you really have a passion to set women free and help them find healing. And you say that Fully Alive is a book that you never planned to write. Why do you say that?

[Susie Larson]  Well a big part, of having been in media, you know, working in radio for so many years and interviewing people across denominational lines – I get emails and I have wonderful listeners. But you also hear the angst and the crazy angry people as well. And there’s such a heated debate around – even just the issue of physical healing. I mean there are some Christians who are angry and say – you know, God never does that so I don’t want to have that conversation.

Some of those folks are angry because maybe they prayed for a loved one and they didn’t get healed so they’re shutting down. End of conversation. Others just believe God doesn’t do that anymore. I have loved ones who we’ve prayed for and didn’t get healed they died. And yet I still know that God still heals today. I know. My own son was a recipient of a medical miracle that you can’t explain.

And I mean, read Lee Strobel’s book on The Case for Miracles – you know, there are documents of true miracles that are happening all over the earth today. God is still a God of miracles. But on the other extreme there are people who are in the camp that God always heals and if you don’t get your miracles it’s because your faith is deficient, there’s a problem with you.

And I had those kinds of people come at me as a young mom when I first battled Lyme disease. And here, I was bit during the pregnancy, unknowingly. I was on bed rest for six months, up one day, and within two weeks of my one day out – my face started to go numb, my memory started to go. It was horrific. As a young 20 something to suddenly start to lose my short-term memory and have my body just completely fall apart with three little boys. And I had people say that to me, and it was excruciating for me.

I also was a person in the fitness world, so I had these kinds of alter-universes in my life where I had a passion for God. I had a chronic health issue, and I had a mindset around health and fitness. I claimed scripture, I did everything I knew to do – and my miracle just didn’t come at me.

I slowly got better and well enough to have a life. But I had to really guard and guide around my boundaries – otherwise, it would just fall over just so easy. My face would go numb and things would start to hurt – and it was just my reality. So jump ahead to now, three years ago, I had a pretty massive health relapse  – and I at this age, you know my kids are grown and gone – I couldn’t even believe it.

So not only were old symptoms flaring that looked like a Lyme relapse – that’s what I thought it was initially – but new symptoms that were horrific and scary neurological symptoms. And I used to have a lot of facial numbing and my arms would go numb. Well, this time my neck went so numb that every time I dropped my chin I would get neurological spasms where I couldn’t swallow. I had bone-crushing headaches – like literally like somebody was putting my head in a vise and cranking till my head cracked. That’s what it felt like, just jarring.

I mean I can’t even explain to you how hellish it was and then you throw in surges of anxiety and fear. And here I am one day in the bathroom. I mean, so hurt that God is allowing this. And so disappointed, and so afraid, and I’m just like- God no no no please don’t let this be my life I’m begging you not to let me go through this again.

And the enemy I felt like he had me by the throat, you know like – I’ve got you this time and I’m taking you out for good.

And it just felt true. And the Lord whispered in my ear: The storms reveal the lies you believe and the truths we need.

And I said what? And He said it again: The storms reveal the lies you believe and the truths we need.

What was the lie that I believe? And I remembered because I heard the enemy railing in my ear in the bathroom – I can get to you anytime, anywhere, and God will never stop me.

And that was a lie that was embedded in my soul as a child after I’d been jumped and beaten horribly by a group of boys.

And I think, I know – I had it in my subconscious all of my life that I actually had to endure everything I feared, that I didn’t enjoy the protections everybody else did. It was like a subconscious belief – but there was a fear nipping at my heels because of some of the things I walked through. And so I say all that to say-  here I had another D-Day battle on my hands, but this time when I heard that lie – I can get to you anytime anywhere. I knew was a lie. The Lord just said –

Susie, this is not true. You have believed it your whole life, but it’s not true. You can’t fathom what I’ve prevented in your life. You can’t fathom how I’ve provided in your life. Yes, it feels like that enemy has you by this throat. But soon the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet. You will have your foot on his neck. I am not going to let you lose, by I have to let you fight. You don’t outrun lies, you turn round you face them. It is time. This is your D-Day battle.

And I’m telling you, Heidi, it was my D-day battle. And I turned around and contented for a promise on a deeper level. And I say all that to say – I did not want to jump in the waters of the heated debate. Does God heal? Does He not?

This book ended up being more a book about inner healing. Because as a person who really does research health, and I’m just very very interested in how what happens to us emotionally – affects us physiologically.

The phrase that I said throughout the book is – what happens in our souls happens in our cells. When I start to see the convergence of that we really are fearfully wonderfully made. If we don’t deal with the wounds and the traumas of hurts and disappointments in our soul – they will push out into our physiology. They will affect us in our health. We will become reactionary people, be very triggerable in our emotions, in our relationships. And the enemy will have access to trigger us left and right.

So I’m saying when God says He was he wants to restore your soul, and in the song of David, it says – He restores my soul – we need to not rush by that because it means to repair, means to refresh, it means to bring back, it means to repay.

I mean there’s so much in there God is saying – I literally want to go into your soul. I want to untangle the fears. I want to speak to the trauma. I want to tell you the truth about the lie you picked up when life let you down. When I restore your soul, it’ll restore every part of you.

That’s why I had to write this book even though I knew, and I’ve already seen some of the angst around when I say – you don’t dictate to God. There are godly people that get sick and die – but there’s a whole lot of us that would know a deeper wholeness if we would be willing to let God deal with some of the issues of our soul.

[Heidi St. John] Amen! I could not agree with you more. A couple of things. You gotta slow down woman I can’t keep up! I’m writing all the notes and I’m like – oh man! I’m on a new paragraph.

This is good stuff! One of the things that you said that immediately… you know, I talk a lot about the culture here at the podcast. And when you said – you know, we’re living in a culture where I got a lot of people who are struggling with a lot of triggers. We’re emotionally triggered, we’re reactionary people, and I was thinking – boy the Truth always trumps the trigger, doesn’t it? And the Holy Spirit wants to come in and say – listen, I am The Guy who set you free, listen to Me. But it’s so easy for us to listen to the culture, to especially – I mean, I meet women all the time, I know you do too, who have suffered traumatic things in there in our past. And you talk about it in our wholeness surfacing these issues from the past, maybe traumatic events – and what do you say to the women who are just going – you know Susie, I’m glad that works for you but you just don’t understand why I live in this place of fear.

I do believe, coming from a place of trauma myself as a young child, most of my young growing up was very traumatic, And I do believe in some ways it hardwired. Your brain like…you’re just sort of hardwired for trauma, like that fight or flight thing. A lot of women I talk to you have had traumatic backgrounds struggle with anxiety and depression.

What do you say to women who want to stuff it? They’re afraid to face those past hurts? And they’ve got all these triggers and they’re so afraid to face the past that they can’t walk in the truth that God has for them. What do you say to those women?

[Susie Larson] Well, first of all, I want to get my arms around you and just wrap you up in a hug because I understand that. And I mean I spoke of one of the traumas. I also endured a sexual trauma at the hands of a different group of teenage boys. And I was a little girl.

So fear, as I said -insecurity, rejection, so many things followed me. And I mean, I had a canyon in my soul. A fear of self-contempt of all the things that you’re talking about, Heidi. And so I am not at all saying there is a formula or even a quick fix. But what I am saying, and I’ve got doctors who endorse this book, doctors who are friends, counselor who I spoke with. This counselor actually said to me – we are seeing women come in in droves with all these physiological issues. And doctors actually are saying we can’t really figure out what’s wrong with you. But when they get into counseling and they start to untangle some of the traumas and they get into the presence of God, and they hear His voice in there in the midst of their hurts – she said more often than not, the physiological symptoms just sort of kind of go away once they address the issues in the soul.

Another way I want to say this – I interviewed Steve Arterburn on my show a couple of years ago, and he said something that is still sticking with me. He said one of the great epidemics of the church today, he said, is unresolved grief. He said every one of us has hurts, losses, disappointments, and we are not slowing down long enough to sort through them.

But the thing is if you push those things down, as my counselor friend said, – she said they have to go somewhere and they’ll come out in her physiology. And what I do believe is God will allow and overplayed enemy attack when He knows you’re strong enough to face the trauma that you’ve buried in your soul. And that the temptation is to numb out. The temptation is to stuff it back down even deeper, to run around to get busy. But if you could trust God, and refuse the lie. The enemy says this is going to swallow you whole. The father says no it’s not, I am with you. The enemy’s threatening your exposure. But what he’s afraid of is his exposure because his threat to you is very connected to your threat to him. He sees the potential in you so he’s threatening you all over the place. So your threat to him is a major threat to him.

That’s why we’ve got to trust God. And He won’t make you face it all at once. It’s like an onion. You know – it’s one layer at a time. You can trust Him, and He will walk you to places of healing. And your healing process will be very unique to you, as mine was to me.

But I’m telling you – you got to be able to answer the question. Do you want to be well? Because we have a part and God has a part. And one of the things I say throughout the book is – let’s pursue healing, and then let’s pray for a miracle.

And Heidi, I mentioned this in the book and I feel like it really bears repeating – that you know, some people want the right things, but they’re just not willing to do anything about it. You know, it was John 8, I think it is. And Jesus says – Do you want to be well? And his first words are – well I can’t. And there are those like, you know me, – I was doing a lot of great things when I was sick. My doctors were saying nobody wants this more than you. I was disciplined, and everything that they were asking me to do because I wanted my life back. But when He kept bringing me back to that passage, I’m like – God, my feelings hurt that you asked me – Do I want to be well?

I mean, I’m drinking 70 ounces of water a day, I’m taking my supplements, I’m going to bed, I’m claiming scripture, I’m doing everything I know to stand in a place of Your promise and trust You for healing. I’m doing my part. Why do you keep asking me – do I want to be well?

Well, He was just quiet, silent. So I thought – I need to ask a better question. Lord, are there hindrances in my own soul to my healing? I don’t know, like a week later I was backstage getting ready to step up to speak and I was having one of these searches of inflammation and they’re horrific. My face was numb, my arms were numb, my head felt like it was going to explode. I was super dizzy. My vision was blurry, and it’s hard to have clarity when all these neurological things are happening in your brain, and you have to go speak – and I’m just about to step out and the host grabs me by the arm and pulls me back. And she said – Oh when you go out there, make sure you that you tell them that you struggle in your health, otherwise you’re just going to hate you when they get a look at you.

And I stopped in my tracks and I thought – I’ve heard that a thousand times and most times in jest, but so many women have said “I would hate you if you didn’t struggle so”

And the Lord whispered to me, before I stepped out on stage, – can you trust Me with your reputation? If I were to heal you 0could you handle it? could you handle women? and if they’re jealous, or if they’re petty?

And it hitched me, you know what I’m saying? Like it stopped me in my tracks. Like, that was a thing. Because, I have walked through betrayal and rejection. In fact, I wrote a whole book on coming out of that. Uncommon Woman is all about finding your identity after being, you know, ripped apart by another woman.

And I don’t want women to hate me. And so for Him to pose that question, I thought – this is one of my “I can’ts”. And right there before I stepped out I said – Lord I will trust you with my reputation. And I know that not all women are that petty and those who are need healing of their own. Yes, I trust you.

Well like a week later, I was praying for human trafficking victims – which I do every single day. And I’m like – Oh Lord, crush the hand of the enemy. Set these captives free.

And the phrase – “blessing guilt” – passed through my mind. And I’m like – blessing guilt? And Lord whispered in my heart again – can you handle it if I heal you while millions are held in captivity?

I said – no, I absolutely can’t. No. And it was so strong in me I couldn’t believe it. And there it was another I can’t. Because I know, and you know, theologically what God does for one doesn’t limit His ability to do for another. And the Lord just challenged me in that – can you manage it if I set you free? Can you trust that I’m still doing a work in progress for these others that you pray for every day?

And that took a huge amount of faith. And I’m just saying this to say – there are hindrances and every soul, to healing. I believe it. Where we have hang-ups and things that we don’t even realize. So if we really, really want to partner with God, and pursuing healing, and asking for a miracle — maybe yours isn’t a physical miracle – maybe it’s an emotional miracle, maybe you’re constantly feeling rejected, constantly self-aware in a negative way where you’re constantly insecure, or fear and anxiety just mark your days and you need a miracle.

Are you willing to go with God to say – Show me what lies I picked up when life let me down. When I was first encountered trauma – what lie did I believe Lord? What lies am I believing now? In what ways in my editing your promises? What self-limiting beliefs of dialogue to just stop me from asking you for the impossible?

If you’re willing to ask some of those hard questions, God, in His gentle way – He will lift your chin, he will speak to your heart, and you’ll know what’s true. And then He’ll walk you to a new place of healing.

[Heidi St. John] It’s so encouraging, I think for all of the listeners who are tuning in today, just to hear your faith and how God actually exposed some of the lies of the enemy. Because I think, right, we do that and they get buried somewhere deep inside of our hearts – and half the time we don’t even know they’re there. And so we spend our lives treating symptoms but we never actually get to the root issue. And so much of what you’re saying resonates with me because — We’re living in a generation right now, I believe, a generation of Biblically illiterate believers. Right? of people who – you know, know – we know the word, right? We grew up in church. You know, a bunch of listeners in the Bible belt – we can say all the right things.

But at the end of the day, we don’t really understand the healing power of God. And the lies of the enemy. It’s an incredible time. Biblically illiterate Christians living in a time of incredible deception. We are being deceived in every area of the culture right now, to the point where we can’t even talk about male and female anymore without getting into a fight with people.

And I thought man this goes back to that. What a powerful truth you are presenting to people just to say – listen, come before the Lord, we got to do it in quietness. Something I’m hearing you say is we got it we got to step back. It sounds to me like it involves resting and resting and in the knowledge  – a) that God’s listening that He can heal you.

Susie, you and I haven’t talked but we walked through very – my nephew was in a devastating car accident a year ago and the doctor said he would never wake up from his coma. He had broken his neck in two places, he’s a quadriplegic.

We spent months in the in the ICU with him. And the short, of the very long story, is that God is healing him and he is walking today.

He’s not where he used to be but I’m telling you – I believe in the healing power of God. I watched the Lord of Heaven’s armies make a lame boy walk again. And I will never question God’s ability to heal.

You’re right in saying God chooses. Ultimately, He’s sovereign and God makes choices and sometimes we don’t understand them. But He is capable of healing.

And something that you’ve said, really well – everything you’re saying resonated. But something in particular you said – we’re talking about treating symptoms but never really getting to the root of them. And I think that requires rest.

And how do we do that in the culture right now? In the in the in the little bit of time we have left, talk to the mom who’s listening, in the next two minutes that we have left – and just the mom who can’t slow down, the mom who has forgotten what it means to be quiet before the Lord. What do you say to her? She desperately wants that healing, but she doesn’t know, kind of how to get off the busy train. What do you say to her?

[Susie Larson] Well that’s a great question. You know one of the strategies God gave me in the midst of my battle was threefold, and it’s in the book – as you rest while I work, you feast while I fight, you wait to take flight. And I unpack it more in the book. But the idea of striving and know that I am God. When you – yes there are parts of your job and your day is as a mom, as a busy young woman that you can’t help – but you’ll be amazed at how much time you squander. And I don’t say that in any kind of judgment. I’m saying that’s just true for all of us.

But when you find yourself getting into restless striving – it’s fruitless. And when you get into that place – ask God to help you stop the striving and know that He’s God. And in those places of striving and restlessness, pullback and say – I’m going to let you be God. I’m going to rest and watch you work on my behalf. And then you feast while I fight. Going off of Psalm 23 – you prepare a table for me in the presence of my enemies. When you’ve wanted to take up your own defense, when you’re reacting on your own defense, when you feel triggered because of fears and those things that put you into self-preservation — I always say that self-preservation and Kingdom life are incompatible.

I like to have communion in my own home now. Depending on where you land denominationally, you decide. But either way. Picture yourself at the table of grace. Picture yourself, Jesus setting a table for you on your battlefield, in the face of your enemy as He’s kind of looking at your enemy with a steely-eyed glance. Go. she is mine. She’s my heir and I’m going to fight for her. And then you wait to take flight.

Those who wait on the Lord will find new strength. Even the young get weary. No matter what your age is, if you’re going on your own strength you will stumble, fall, and fall down, and burn out.

But when you learn the practice of waiting on God, you will find a new strength in the way that passage translates. It’s truly a power and a strength you’ve not known before. And when I was a young mom with Lyme disease – I mean that disease was killing me! And I had major financial hardship, and three little boys – I had five and ten minutes of time with the Lord. But I had God’s word so I said to myself and to the Lord –  

You know what? You said if I ask you for something that I know that you want for me I can know that I will have it. I know you want time with me. I want time with you. So I’m taking this pitiful ten minutes as a tithe to the time. I’m lifting it up with the expectancy that you’re going to multiply it because we both want more time together. I’m asking you in the middle of this disease in three little kids would you multiply at the time that I get to spend with you as you part the waters. Give me some miracles with letting the boys nap a little longer or play sweeter.

And I’m telling you what Heidi,  God did that in the middle of that. I contended for it, and I’m not patting myself on the back. I’m just saying I wanted it bad and you did that. And to this day, now I’m an empty nester, I enjoy two hours of Lord every single morning.

And again I only say that to say – I’m still living in the fruit of that fight from when I was a young mom. I’m challenging you. You won’t believe where you can carve out time and nothing will refresh you like the presence of the Living God. And nothing will teach you like the word of God. Honor the call of God in your life and carve out the time. It will bear more fruit than any squandering ever would. So I pray you hear that in the heart that I mean it. God has more for you. I know it. I know it. I know it.

[Heidi St. John] I love that. I love that. What you’ve talked about, prioritizing – because really when we come before the Lord, it has to be a priority. And God will multiply it. Love what you said that I wrote a similar thing and becoming MomStrong. He takes those little moments that we give to Him, like a tithe of our time, and He multiplies them like you multiply the loaves and fishes. God knows the season that you’re in.

Susie Larson, do you mind if I pray for you quick, friend, before we go?

[Susie Larson] I would love that.

[Heidi St. John] Father God, we come before you right now, Lord, I just thank you for the precious life of Susie Larson. Lord, I thank you, that she is willing to share her struggles, her joys and her triumphs, and her walk of faith with You with so many of listeners around the world. Father, I pray that you would take the message of this book and multiply it. Father, there we need your healing. Oh Lord, we need your mercy in this culture right now. And so Lord, would you just help us to come before you, speak to our hearts right now, Lord. For the women who are listening to this who are broken, and tired, and weary. Lord, you are the lifter of our heads. And so Father, I pray that you’d lift up our heads – that we would keep her eyes on you. Help those precious moms who are listening who have those little ones at home and they don’t know where they’re going to find the time – Lord show them. Show me what it looks like to sit at your feet, even when we’re surrounded by little ones. Lord, we love you. Thank you that your mercies are new every morning, Father, and I pray your blessing over Susie, as she continues to speak a story of hope and healing. In Jesus’ name, Amen.

Susie, thank you so much for coming on the show. It’s just been a joy to have you.

[Susie Larson] An honor to be with you, Heidi. Thanks for having me.

[Heidi St. John] You’re welcome.

For more information about Susie Larson and her new book, Fully Alive Learning to Flourish Body Mind and Spirit, you can visit me at HeidiStJohn.com/Podcast – the show notes will be there, and also a link to Susie’s new book.

Hey, before I go today I want to let you guys know of a couple of things I’m going to be involved in coming up.

The first one is actually tomorrow. I’m going to be a guest at the IEW Winter Retreat. That’s coming up tomorrow. I’m going to join my friend Andrew Pudewa and several other special guests throughout the day, and we’re going to provide a day that’s going to encourage you as you prepare for another semester of teaching. Andrew is a good friend of mine and we have a hoot and holler and good time together so it’s guaranteed to be a great time. I’m going to be doing a session with him called: Developing Delight-Directed Learning. I’m sure we’re gonna have a blast! If you guys attend live, you can ask us questions and of course that makes it so much more fun and interactive. This retreat is online and it is free to attend. If you can’t be there live, you will receive the recordings if you register for the event to register. Go to IEW.com/Winter-Retreat2018. I will link back to that in the show notes today.

Also, I’m going to be at several events coming up in January 6th – 12th. I will be cruising with the Florida Parent Educators Association.

Abilene Texas is my destination on January 19th. I will be doing Miracle Worker, The Life-Changing Power of Following Jesus. It’s the Heidi St. John Conference for the 2019 calendar year.

After that, I will be in Coos Bay, Oregon. I’m bringing the Heidi St. John conference to Coos Bay, Oregon and I hope that you will join me there.

For those of you who are not in this neck of the woods. my next conference for the Heidi St. John conference, is in Lakeland Florida on March the 2nd.

You can find more information about these events, and you can register now. Right now is a great time to register because the early bird race is still happening for Abilene, Texas and also for Coos, Bay. So head on over to HeidiStJoh.com/Events for more information and to register.

For those of you who are interested in joining me at MomStrong International for the new study, In Search of Joy, it’s not too late to join us. You can sign up today at MomStrongInternational.com.

Have a great day everybody and I’ll see you back here on Monday!

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Women, there is power in community. There is power in studying the Word of God and I want to just encourage and equip you and spur you on to love and good works as you grow in the grace and understanding of the Lord Jesus.

This week we are studying in week one, In search of Joy, this idea of a longing for contentment.

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TRANSCRIBED VERSION OF THE PODCAST BELOW

Merry Christmas everybody!

This is Heidi St. John! Welcome to the Heidi St. John podcast. Today is Wednesday December 5th.

I’m so excited to be in the month of December. We have a lot to celebrate – not the least of which is the birth of the Lord Jesus.

Today we are going to be talking a little bit about the MomStrong International Bible Study, In search of Joy. And, I’m going to answer a question from a listener. Stick around, I think you’re going to be encouraged.

So you guys, today is the first Wednesday in the month of December. This is the first week of a brand new study at MomStrong International. If you haven’t become a subscriber there yet, can I just encourage you to do that? We are coming up on 10000 members of the Scripture Writing community – and as soon as we hit that we’re gonna start doing some really fun giveaways. We’re really close. We’re about 250 people off of that mark right now but we’re getting there.

And I want to just encourage you we are studying God’s word together at MomStrong International. You can download that study and do it with your friends. You can become a leader at MomStrong International –  just head over to MomStrong International and click on the application, and you can apply to host your own group.

Women, there is power in community. There is power in studying the Word of God and I want to just encourage and equip you and spur you on to love and good works as you grow in the grace and understanding of the Lord Jesus.

This week we are studying in week one, In search of Joy, this idea of a longing for contentment. The world has an undeniable longing for contentment. An unquenchable thirst for satisfaction – and listen you guys – contentment is never gonna be found in the aisles of a store, or in the fictional husbands that we read about who have unnaturally gracious responses to prayer to a perimenopausal meltdown, right? Those of you who have the husband says – I drew a bath for you. Go relax and I’ll have to handle dinner and bedtime.

Not that that doesn’t happen occasionally in our homes. But you know what happens is we look at someone else’s husband who did that and we become covetous. Why? Because we are always longing for contentment. And satisfaction and contentment doesn’t come outside of the Lord Jesus because what we actually have is a hunger for joy.

And Jesus is the only true source of it.

I’m going to take this in a little bit of a different direction for just a moment because I received a question the other day – actually it was a scathing email – from a woman who was angry with me because I took a stand against what the culture is doing in promoting transgenderism. And I posted a video, and I’m thinking I might put this on my blog too – I haven’t done it yet – but I’m thinking about it!

And I said – years from now after we’ve allowed our children to mutilate their bodies in the name of tolerance, and the lawsuits don’t heal the scars left behind by surgery, and puberty blockers, and hormones – I hope we remember this point in our collective story.

We are searching for contentment. We are searching for satisfaction. We are searching for anything that will fill that void in our heart, that was meant to be filled by God.

And what we’re doing, particularly in promoting transgenderism to our children, is wrong it’s wrong. DNA doesn’t lie, Your DNA doesn’t lie. So why-why would we allow this to happen? Because we care more about tolerance than we care about truth. Because we would rather exploit these kids than do the hard work of helping them have a healthy view of their bodies and their minds. Oh, you’re struggling with your identity? Here’s some puberty blockers for you. Have some hormones. Here’s a free surgery that the taxpayers would love to offer you.

You guys, this isn’t love. If we love people struggling with gender dysphoria we would stop pushing this politically motivated ideology and get back to helping kids love the bodies they were born with. Love Never Fails. And we’re failing these kids. We’re failing them with their silence, we’re failing them with our unwillingness to stand in the gap for them – and sometimes love means telling a hard truth. Sometimes it means being willing to hear stories of hurt and abuse and help these young ones love the bodies that God created them to have, and that they were born with.

So no – this isn’t love =. It’s anything but love. And this woman in her scathing reprimand of me said – you know Heidi, basically I don’t like you. Blah blah blah blah.

That’s OK.

She said – there’s nothing tragic about this. Stop telling people it’s tragic There’s nothing sad or pitiful This isn’t about DNA or self-esteem. This is about people being born into the wrong bodies about people who need acceptance and love while going through their transition and about your and others intolerance.

Madison, thank you for writing. This is about love.

It’s about a lack of love. People are not born in the wrong body. They may have a mental illness but we don’t treat a mental illness by cutting off a body part and sewing something else on in its place. This is tragic. So unlike my page,  unfollow me, but mark my words – years from now this is going to backfire and I really hope that people will start loving these kids enough, to tell the truth. Loving them enough, to tell the truth.

Another woman wanted to say  – God would want you to stop trying to tell others how to live and stop judging them. Let people live the life they want to.

So, Caitlin, this is my answer to you.

Is this your attitude toward anorexics? Just let them live the life they want to? Is this your attitude toward heroin addicts? Let them live the life they want to?

Is this your attitude toward a teenage alcoholic? Let them live the life they want? To let live and stop judging? Because if that’s your attitude toward an anorexic – just let them starve themselves because they think they’re fat – how is it loving someone to let them live the way they want to when they’re obviously hurting themselves? And that’s what I mean. This isn’t about love. We don’t love these people – because love would say: hey! this is going to hurt you. This is going to hurt you. Let me help you.

This is not about shaming, by the way. This is about love and it is not about shaming. It’s about coming alongside someone and saying – you know what? I see that you’re hurting. Let me help you. God loves you.

So often these kids do not know how loved they are. I saw a kid being paraded out on Good Morning America a couple of weeks ago. A young boy who his parents have dressed him like a girl, and put lipstick, and a wig on him – and I just think all of Heaven is weeping. Recently I heard from a young man who works at a very well-known grocery chain and one of his co-workers is transitioning to into a woman.

And my heart just broke reading this letter from this employee. Because his employer has barred him from even telling this young man – listen you’re making a terrible mistake.

I talked to my children, the ones who are old enough to understand – these are conversations we have in our home because this is the world, unfortunately, that we find ourselves living in. And I said to one of my one of my older teenage children. I said –

Can you imagine?

So here’s this is what’s happening, let’s understand the surgery, let’s understand what this is because it’s not love. It’s a search for contentment and a search for satisfaction. And you’re never going to find it the end of a scalpel! And years from now when this young man’s body doesn’t work like it’s intended to work – what are we going to say then?

My heart is breaking for this generation. And men and women, I just want to encourage you to get off the bench. If you have an opportunity to speak truth to somebody – speak it! Because where tolerance is the reigning virtue in a society – every other virtue must yield. Love must yield Truth must yield. We yield everything to tolerance and the enemy is having a field day with it. And I just want to encourage you.

We are living in a culture that is desperately in search of joy, desperate for a search of contentment. We were searching for hope and change, right? So much so that we elected a president for eight years in a row thinking that’s gonna give it to us.

And as it turns out, it doesn’t work. In Luke 2:10-11 the angel of the Lord declared:

“Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will bring great joy for all the people.”

I want you to think about that with me for just a minute.

All the people.

You have a message of joy, and hope, that is for all the people. Don’t be afraid. This is a beautiful time of year to read this story to your children – but also mom and dad, read it with your circumstances in mind right now.

Don’t be afraid, the angel of Lord said: I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. Today, in the town of David, a Savior has been born to you. He is the Messiah. He is the Lord.

And while he walked the earth the creator of the universe, Jesus Christ, made no secret of the fact that He had made it possible for his joy to be in us. And for his joy to be made for.

Do you remember at MomStrong International, our study of John – when Jesus praised the father in chapter 17. If you don’t remember, look back at your Scripture Writing from October 10th. He said – I am leaving these precious ones here and I’m coming back to you. I’m speaking as much truth as possible while I’m here. Father so that all these people could have my joy made full in themselves. Don’t take them out of the world but protect them from the evil one. Fill me up.

Lord, I want some of that joy. I want some of that joy.

If you’re looking for joy today, if you wonder where contentment is found – it’s found in Jesus. Fix your eyes on Jesus, the author and the finisher of our faith. Fix your eyes on Jesus.

It’s so easy to grab our kids and want to shelter them from the pain in this world,  isn’t it?

It’s so easy to want to shelter them. It’s so easy to say – Hey! we’re not going to talk about that hard thing, or we’re gonna go over here and pretend like this stuff isn’t happening.

But you guys when we do this we rob our kids of the opportunity for God to work in their circumstances, and to grow their understanding of His greatness, and to train their hands for battle.

Remember that as we walk through these things that are so difficult. God is still at work. He is still at work. His word says that He is doing a good thing.

The Bible says that Jesus endured the agony of the cross. He who knew not one second of sin – endured the shame of my sin and of yours. He endured the hostility of sinners.

Sometimes I think, as we take a stand for righteousness in the culture – and I’m telling you – I’m here as living proof! The minute you take a stand people are gonna start shooting at you.

I’ve started to consider it all joy. To consider it all joy. When people are hostile toward you – don’t grow weary, don’t lose heart – instead, ask the Lord to give you love and courage to speak the truth.

This is a wonderful time of year to turn the eyes of the people around you toward heaven – that Jesus came into this dark world so that we could be made right with Him.

What kind of love is that? What kind of example did He set for us?

So this week you guys, keep your eyes fixed on Jesus. He went through all of those things, and more, to receive the joy set before him in God’s presence. Just as Jesus taught us by example, we teach our children when we set our gaze on God – and the result of that is inexpressible joy.

Joy is not a product of your circumstances. It is the undeniable sign of the presence of God. It’s the knowledge that when everything around you seems wrong – you are right with God. You are right with God.

This week in the MomStrong International Bible Study we’re going to be asking you to write out first Peter 1:3-9, and as you do it – ask the Lord, ask the Holy Spirit to settle this passage deep into your heart. Because over the next several weeks we’re going to be talking more about it and we want the Lord to open our eyes to see the rich truths that lie in this passage.

So ask the Lord to help you. Write out a list of the of the trials that you’re facing, things that are distressing you, things that are distressing you in the culture, things that are frustrating you in your home, or maybe you’re perplexed in your in your relationships.

Pray over the list. Surrender each one of these things to the care of the Lord. Ask the Holy Spirit for help in keeping your eyes fixed on Jesus. God wants to give, to fill you with joy, and we want our kids to do that.

My daughter Savannah writes the Kids Strong study every month at MomStrong International. And she has a message for you – for those of you have who have subscribed to the study. I’m gonna read just a little part of it. She said:

Hi Moms, Merry Christmas! The Christmas season and all its festivities (and the chaos) is filled with many rich opportunities for shepherding your children. It’s easy to get caught up in the crazy, and while that’s okay, and pretty much unavoidable – I encourage you – don’t miss out. Ask the Lord to help you use each moment as a teaching tool to point your kids to Christ. Direct your children’s wonder to the season. Direct your children’s wonder of the season to their savior Jesus. Get involved in your church together. Donate your time and gifts to the needy. Teach your children that joy doesn’t come from gifts. That it’s not found under the tree. It’s not found at Walmart, on Amazon.com – but rather in the gift of Jesus in their hearts.

How ironic is it that in a season where we celebrate the greatest gift we’ve ever received – a gift that took our good works and showed us that they never could have earned the relationship with God that Jesus purchased for us. And in the middle of the season, we are distracting ourselves and our children with superfluous gifts from a man who requires that they must earn through good works.

I’m not saying no to Santa, but rather more of Jesus. His gift to us doesn’t require anything but our accepting it.

How humbling is that? And maybe, just maybe, we can find greater and deeper joy this season, as we focus more on the source of that joy.

For those of you who are frustrated and struggling with things in your life right now, or things that are happening in the culture –  or maybe like me – you look around and every once in a while you have to kind of rub your eyes and say – are we really living in such a time as this?

And the answer is yes. We are. But greater is He who is in us,  than he who is in the world.

God has good things for you, and you have – those of you who know the Lord Jesus – you have inside of you the hope and change that nothing else can offer. You have Jesus. You have Jesus! And I just want to encourage you — instead of normalizing what God says — speak the truth in love. Speak the Truth and Love.

I want to end with a passage I read I read in my Bible this morning, and I’ve read this passage many times – but it encouraged me again as I opened up my email and began my day, and all those things. In 2 Corinthians 10:3 it says:

3 We are human, but we don’t wage war as humans do. 4 We use God’s mighty weapons, not worldly weapons, to knock down the strongholds of human reasoning and to destroy false arguments. 5 We destroy every proud obstacle that keeps people from knowing God. We capture their rebellious thoughts and teach them to obey Christ.

We don’t wage war like the world does. The weapons of our warfare don’t look like the weapons that the world uses. Get on your knees, men and women, ask the Lord to direct your heart and your mind back to His word., to speak the truth and love, to put feet to your faith, to get off the bench and onto the battlefield – knowing that one day the Lord Jesus who we celebrate this year, this season, is going to come back and He’s going to set things right. He is.  And that’s where our faith and our hope rests.

I’m going to go ahead and end this podcast in a word a prayer.

Heavenly Father, oh Lord. Sometimes we struggle, we often struggle, to find contentment to find joy. We’re often wrestling father with things that we don’t understand and can’t reason away. And so Lord, would you help us right now – focus our hearts on You. Focus the hearts of our children on You. I pray that our families would be strong in you Lord. And that we would be strong in the power of Your word.

God, I pray that you would give us your eyes, and your heart, and your passion, and your love for those who need it so desperately. Lord, I pray that we would find our strength and our contentment in You. That you would turn our eyes evermore toward You. That we would look for your coming soon. Maranatha , come Lord Jesus. And while we wait for your return Father, I pray that our lives might be pleasing to You.

I pray Father that you would help us to speak of the joy of Your son Jesus to the whole world, knowing that the whole world needs Jesus. Thank You, Lord, for this time of year. Thank You Holy Spirit. Fills us up. Send us out. In Jesus’ name, Amen.

I want to thank you guys for listening to the podcast. If it’s encouraging to you, it encourages us. If you leave reviews for this podcast over it iTunes – you can do that by clicking on a little gear shift, and then clicking on the little star – you can write a review and rate this podcast.

Also, we really appreciate your financial support. This podcast does not have ads for a reason. We want to use every bit of this 20 minutes to encourage you back toward the Lord. If you would like to support the work that we are doing here we’d be greatly blessed by that. You can send us your gifts and any communication that you would like to Firmly Planted Family 11100 NE 34th Circle Vancouver, Washington 98682.

Thanks for listening everybody, have a great Wednesday – and I’ll see you back here at my friend Susie on Friday.

 

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Today I’m answering several questions about how we parent small children.  From character building (and my favorite parenting books) to the way we handle gifts at Christmas, it all matters to the Lord!

Parenting Isn’t for Cowards: The ‘You Can Do It’ Guide for Hassled Parents by James Dobson

Does your heart skip a beat when you think of all that could go wrong in the parenting years ahead? Anxiety is normal, but your worst fears don’t have to become reality. Speaking both as a therapist and a father―and drawing on a landmark study of thirty-five thousand parents―Dr. James Dobson helps you . . .

• prevent child-rearing troubles before they happen
• banish your guilt about hard-to-raise children
• protect your sanity during a child’s adolescence
• restore your energy when you’re facing burnout
• enhance your relationships with your kids

The 5 Love Languages of Children by Gary Chapman

Does your child speak a different language? Sometimes they wager for your attention, and other times they ignore you completely. Sometimes they are filled with gratitude and affection, and other times they seem totally indifferent. Attitude. Behavior. Development. Everything depends on the love relationship between you and your child. When children feel loved, they do their best. But how can you make sure your child feels loved?

Strong Fathers, Strong Daughters: 10 Secrets Every Father Should Know by Dr. Meg Meeker

In today’s increasingly complicated world, it’s often difficult for parents to connect with their daughters–and especially so for fathers. In this unique and invaluable guide, Dr. Meg Meeker, a pediatrician with more than twenty years’ experience counseling girls, reveals that a young woman’s relationship with her father is far more important than we’ve ever realized. To become a strong, confident woman, a daughter needs her father’s attention, protection, courage, and wisdom. Dr. Meeker shares the ten secrets every father needs to know in order to strengthen or rebuild bonds with his daughter and shape her life–and his own–for the better.

Parenting by The Book: Biblical Wisdom for Raising Your Child by John Rosemond

Picture respectful, responsible, obedient children who entertain themselves without television or video games, do their own homework, and have impeccable manners. A pie-in-the-sky fantasy? Not so, says family psychologist and bestselling author John Rosemond.

In the 1960s, American parents stopped listening to their elders when it came to child rearing and began listening instead to professional experts. Since then, raising children has become fraught with anxiety, stress, and frustration. The solution, says John, lies in raising children according to biblical principles, the same principles that guided parents successfully for hundreds of years. They worked then, and they still work now!

The New Strong-Willed Child by Dr. James Dobson

Is a willful little darling driving you to distraction? The New Strong-Willed Child is the resource you need—a classic bestseller completely rewritten, updated, and expanded for a new generation of parents and teachers. Challenging as they are to raise, strong-willed children can grow up to be men and women of strong character—if lovingly guided with understanding and the right kind of discipline. Find out what Dr. James Dobson, today’s most trusted authority on parenting, has to say about what makes strong-willed children the way they are; shaping the will while protecting the spirit; avoiding the most common parenting mistake; and much more. If you are struggling to raise and teach children who are convinced they should be able to live by their own rules, The New Strong-Willed Child is a must-read!

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TRANSCRIBED VERSION OF THE PODCAST BELOW

Hi friends, this is Heidi St. John welcome to the podcast!

You guys, today is the first Monday in December. This is Monday, December 3rd it’s episode number 696. It’s mailbox Monday here at the podcast.

I have a lot of questions to get to today stick around. I think you’re going to be encouraged!

All right,  so today is December 3rd and a couple of great things about today – First of all, today is the birthday of my now 8-year-old daughter, our youngest child, has turned eight!

I’m finding myself a little melancholy today as my little ballerina flits around my house, and I told my husband this morning that – it’s more and more every day that I am very very thankful for all the years that we had with little children in our home.

I’m going to get to more of that a little bit later. But just know, if you hear a little melancholy in my voice say that’s why – I’m watching the last of our seven as she is just sailing through childhood. So lots of lots of things on my mind today.

Also, today’s the first day of the MomStrong International Bible Study.  For the month of December, we are doing a study that I am calling: In search of Joy. And I know that you guys are going to love this. We live in a culture that really struggles to find joy. We find it a struggle to be content with what we have and it’s never more obvious in the Christmas season.

And so this is a great study for you to dig into with your kids. Don’t forget to download the free copy work that’s available for your children. it’s available at MomStrongInternational.com.

All right, there’s lots of stuff going on today. I have been searching and poring through my e-mails. I want to say thank you to everyone who’s listening to this podcast. It is such a joy for me to know that God is using it in your life and that you are growing. I saw a great review over at iTunes I wanted to read to you today. It says:

I am a high school girl and my passion is getting involved in politics and engaging in the process for the glory of God. Heidi St. John provides a solid Biblically based voice for the Christian worldview that blesses and challenges me. In a world of lies and noise Heidi clings to the Word of God as the ultimate authority and the ultimate truth. And it’s so refreshing. Thank you for allowing yourself to be humbly used by God.

That encouraged me so much! So whoever left that review thank you so much. I want you to know that my team and I read almost every single one of these reviews as you put them out over on iTunes. We love it that you leave reviews there – it’s very encouraging for us to see those reviews and to be able to have other people see them as well. So thank you so much, everyone, for taking the time to do that.

If you’re wondering how to do it it’s very simple. Go over to iTunes, click on the little gear shift and it will allow you to rate the podcast and leave a review for it – so be sure that you do that.

I want to thank you guys for listening and for reaching out to us with your questions for Mailbox Monday. If you would like a question addressed at the podcast – please shoot us an email podcast@thebusymom.com.

All right I want to get to the first question today. There are so many questions coming in every day over at the podcast that sometimes we try to put them into categories. And today is no different. I’m going to take a particular question from a mom – I’m going to try to answer some that I think are gonna be relatively easy to answer because last week I kind of got hung up a little bit – particularly because we were talking about Canada and politics. Today I’m not going to be talking about politics.

Jessica said:

Heidi, you mentioned on your podcast a few weeks ago about setting down the homeschooling to focus on the heart and character building of your children. How are some ways that you can do this? I have a four-year-old, a 2-year-old, and a 6-month-old.

Jessica this is a fantastic question, so thanks for writing in. And I want to just let you know this is a fantastic time for those of you who are homeschooling to put down your homeschooling stuff today. We’re getting really close right to a winter break. And part of me thinks this is the most wonderful time of the year because we can take a break. right?. And we appreciate that. But it’s also a really great time to turn the hearts of your children toward the Lord. And the way that we do that, the first way that we do that – always is by setting an example.

And so Jessica one of the first things that you can do is to let your children see that you place a priority on knowing and studying God’s word for yourself. It’s so important for your children to see you doing that. They are going to take their cues from you our children take their cues from their parents.

And it’s so important for you, parents – if you want to see your children walking in victory and walking in right relationship with the Lord – they need to see you doing that.

Let them see you walk in and right relationship with the Lord. Let them see you on your knees in prayer.

A couple of things too Jessica, that came to my mind immediately when I read your email, was that you have a 4 and a 2 and a 6-month-old. And I would I just would encourage you – Your kids aren’t really old enough to be spending a whole lot of time in homeschooling. And I know that this question is not really about homeschooling but you are in something I like to call:  The Wonder Years.

These are the years when everything that you do your children are going to look at with wonder and they’re gonna want to be with you in everything that you do. They want to do it too, right? Even when you go to the bathroom – they want to do that too, right?! And so I want to just encourage you to sit down and read with your children. Put them on your lap. Talk to them about who they are. We are living in such an upside-down culture right now and there has never been a better time for parents, especially when you have young ones at home, to teach them who they are according to God’s word. And who God says that they are that they were born exactly how God wanted them to be born – born in the right body with the right gender, at the right time, to the right parents.

Our kids need to know that and that comes first from our parents. So one way, Jessica, that you can encourage your children to have a heart for the Lord and focus on building their character is – simply by reading to them. I think we live in a culture that’s moving really fast it’s hard to sit down and read and the thing that I think most influenced my children in the years that we had all seven of them at home – was the time that we took to read to them especially when they were very young so find good books for your kids. I have a list of them over at HeidiStJohn.com. You can look for Christmas books – I have a Christmas book list that’s out. I have a regular reading book list that’s out. I cannot stress enough the importance of reading to your children. There has never been a more important time than now. And really read to them the stories of the Bible!  You can get children’s Bibles you can read to them. You can read them about the things that God does. You can go through a Psalm a day with them or a verse a day. Those little things – when you see that your children are having character issues can I just encourage you to stop what you’re doing and address it.

We see a lot of parents right now who are either helicopter parenting or, you guys really talk several months ago about lawnmower parenting, and those – neither one of those things are good for our children. What they need is loving discipline.

My friend Dr. Dobson wrote a book a long long time ago called Parenting Isn’t For Cowards. One of my favorite parenting books of all time. The subtitle of this book is simply – dealing confidently with the frustrations of child-rearing. OK. Wow. I mean really – parenting isn’t for cowards. And you know what I see in the culture today? – a lot of chicken parents, a lot of cowardly parents. Cowardly parents don’t discipline their kids. Cowardly parents give their children whatever it is that they want. And if we want to raise children that are going to be lights in a very dark world. We’ve got to raise them with intention and with love and with truth. And so every opportunity that you can take to instill those things into your children – take the opportunity and do it. I hope that you are in a community with other moms who love the Lord and want to raise their children to be a bright light in a dark world as well.

have tons of parenting tips and tons of homeschooling tips for you online. If you just google “HeidiStJohn.com homeschooling” or even beginning homeschooling. I wrote an article called character trumps curriculum and I think that’s true – I think character comes before curriculum.

We can raise our children to be very very well educated and if we haven’t been instilling in them the things of the Lord and we haven’t been correcting them —  For example, if you notice that your child is disrespectful, if you notice that your child is lying to you, or if he’s being a bully to his younger siblings – correct it. Don’t be afraid to discipline your child.

So much of what happens in character building when our children are young comes from the loving correction and loving discipline of their parents. And so, I want to just encourage you to do that. There are lots and lots of great parenting books out there. I noticed in your email that you said that you weren’t raised in a Christian home. And so, I will link back to some of my favorite parenting books in the show notes today.

Parenting Isn’t For Cowards is an old book but it’s a great book. And Dr. Dobson has had a tremendous impact on my life. I was raised in a Christian home but my parents, as many if you if you’ve read Becoming MomStrong, my parents did not have a good marriage. My home was an unhappy home and the Lord has been very gracious to me to surround me with Godly women and also with wonderful resources. And so I’ll link back to those in the show notes today.

All right the next question comes from an anonymous listener. And she writes to me about Christmas and I actually resonated with a lot of what she said. So here’s what she said:

Heidi, I am writing because I hate Christmas. I use to enjoy it but it’s become a source of constant stress for me from November 1st until the end of December.

That is two months out of your year my friend. So let’s see if we can help you today.

I have six children and come from an extended family that is quite large. I really enjoy buying one gift for each of my children and for my husband. However, I have come to dread the buying of presents for all the in-laws, the nieces, nephews, and others in our large extended families. Nobody needs anything. Many of the children in our extended family are destructive and spoiled and I feel like I’m wasting my money buying gifts for them and angry at myself for not enjoying gift giving more than I do. I feel like I’ve turned into a regular Scrooge.

All right. So I can kind of identify with you on a couple of levels here. First of all, I also do not like the pressure of gift buying. That’s why I told you guys my favorite holiday is actually Thanksgiving because it’s all the family get together and none of the pressure of gift buying. So I love Thanksgiving. But I’ll tell you what – I also have an extended family and we used to do a gift exchange – and about seven or eight years ago I bowed out of the gift exchange.

Now there’s a couple of ways that you can bow out of the gift exchange.  You can do it by complaining and saying how much you hate it or you can just say – you know, I really love you guys but I need to focus on my own family.  

And you know what I think’s going to happen. I think the vast majority of your family members are gonna go – Oh thank you! – because they may feel the same way that you do. There is no reason, especially for those of us who are on a tight budget and we already have a hard time getting presents for our own families -there’s really no reason to extend it to the nieces, and nephews, and aunts, and uncles, and in-laws, and all these things.

And it really does put stress! And nothing is more frustrating for a person to than to watch their gift get opened and realize it got kind of a lackluster response because you just really did not know what to get. And so I think there’s a couple of ways that you can do it. I would maybe go to some of these family members and just say – hey you know what, our family has decided that for gift giving we are going to focus on our kids and our family – and release them from feeling like they have to buy something for you, right?. Just release them from it and do it with a smile on your face.

And you know – the other thing that you can do, because I know that you don’t want your kids to pick up a bad attitude or hate Christmas or any of those things, right? — so the other thing that you can do is maybe make cookies. That’s something that we’ve done with our kids for years. We do it in our neighborhood. We’ll make a batch of fudge and some white chocolate covered pretzels and take them around to the neighbors. One time of year we get to reach out to our neighbors. And maybe you say –  hey we’re going to turn our focus toward very simple gift giving and really try to refocus our children on the importance of honoring Jesus at Christmas.

My friend Ann Dunagan was here last week and we were talking a little bit about mission minded Christmas – a mission focused Christmas. And one of the things she said really resonated with me.

She said – you know Heidi, Christmas – we’ve made it so much about getting things. But Christmas was Jesus giving up everything. He gave up everything. He left his home.

We talk about coming home for Christmas. Jesus left his home. He left a glory. He left being seated at the right hand of God. He left all the pleasures of heaven to come down to earth to experience life as a human being – to die for us on the cross so that we could have eternal life with Him. He became sin for us so that we can enjoy eternal life with Him. And what would happen in our families if we really turn that focus to Joy, for our children? And joy isn’t found at Wal-Mart. It just isn’t. It’s not going to be found at Wal-Mart. It’s not going to be found on Amazon.com. And I just want to encourage you. It’s OK to bow out.

So I know a lot of you are listening to this and if your passion is gift giving, and you just love it and you’ve been disciplined enough to save money all year for Christmas – then more power to you. Bless you. There are people who need to experience that gift that you have.

And for those of you who are struggling with it, it’s okay to bow out. There doesn’t need to be a dark cloud hanging over Christmas because you’re worried about gift giving. And so those are kind of my suggestions for just simplifying and communicating, lovingly, how you’re going to do Christmas with your family. And as your family grows – and I experience this with my own family because now I have grandchildren on top of the seven children, and in-laws, and aunts and uncles — as your family grows they’re going to understand that. So give it a try.

And the other thing that you asked at the bottom of your email if I could give some suggestions for Christmas planning for busy homeschool moms who already feel like they’re on their last thread.

So, I hear from a lot of homeschool moms this time of year I’ve actually written about this. If you search Heidi St. John Christmas you will find articles that I have written on Christmas and how you can make it a little less stressful. But I think making your Christmas a time of focusing on other people and – even I love your heart for wanting to maintain a good financial stewardship, and have joy in your heart, and a smile on your face during the Christmas season. One of the ways that we do that,  homeschool moms-  is by putting down the books. So I’m preaching to myself, as usual. It’s putting down the books, it’s having enough energy where you can be impromptu in what you’re doing and maybe go out and look at Christmas lights, and take your children out to hear some carolers ,or put some hot chocolate in a in a mug and sit down and watch It’s A Wonderful Life. Oh my goodness it doesn’t get any better than that.

Teach your kids how to make Chex mix because every child needs not to do that. And focus on the simple things. And honestly, when your kids are older – I know this from experience – their Christmases they remember are not going to be the ones that you went bankrupt to give them. They’re going to be the ones where they remember stringing popcorn, and making fudge with you, and learning how to cook a Christmas turkey, and all of these things.

Those are going to be things that are going to carry the most reward with them and yield the best dividends. So, I hope that encourages you!

Get off the crazy train, unpack your bags, don’t go on anybody’s guilt trip – but communicate lovingly what it is that you’re trying to do. So I hope that helps you and all the other moms who listen to this who are feeling the same way you do.

All right. Here comes my next one. This one says:

Heidi, I have to say I had quite an awakening after last night while browsing Netflix after my husband went to bed (next time I’ll simply go to bed with him)

That’s good for a lot of different reasons.

I took note of the Sabrina the Teenage Witch remake which they recently released. I remember the whimsical 90s film with Melissa Joan Hart and thought nothing of pressing play. I instantly regretted it. I have never been so disturbed and distressed by the sheer glorification of Satan worshipping and witchcraft as I have by the unfortunate witnessing of the Chilling Adventures of Sabrina. The premise was preparing Sabrina to enter the witches coven of her aunts by literally selling her soul to the devil that they worship openly with frequent ‘oh think the Dark Lord and praise Satan’ – as someone would normally say ‘Praise God’. I have not had nightmares in years and was tossing and turning with disturbing dreams that I now know came straight from the enemy himself. I felt compelled to offer a warning for anyone making the same mistake as I did. I have always been relaxed when it came to my media choices as I enjoyed horror stories as a teen as easily separating reality from movie magic for the sake of a good scare and story. I have hereby changed my mind on this approach.

I love that you said that ‘I have hereby changed my mind on this approach’. Can I just say – we need to be able to change our mind. It’s all right to change your mind. When I was a kid I used to watch some of the horror movies in the ’80s. I think I watched Nightmare on Elm Street and I can’t remember what else. I would never watch those things now. Why? – Because I realize more than I ever had before that the enemy is real, and the darkness is real – and I don’t want to flood myself in darkness because we have our time getting out of it.

And so your question is:

How do I go for protecting my own mind and that of my family within our home?

So the first thing to tell you is don’t overreact. Right? Because there’s a good way and a bad way to react to situations like this. The good way is to say – Father thank you for showing me that this is not for me. Right? – we go back to Philippians: whatever is good, whatever is right, whatever is lovely, whatever is honorable, whatever is of good repute. Think about those things. And so we thank the Lord saying – thank you for softening my spirit so I could see that this is something that’s not good for me and it’s not good for my children.

And then, don’t wallow in it. Move on, move forward. Turn up the Christmas music. Turn on the worship music. I think we protect our minds by guarding them in Christ Jesus. And we do that by filling our heads in our hearts and our minds with things that we know honor the Lord. And you can do that by being in His words. So I want to encourage you to do that – get into the Word of God.

And there’s lots of great stuff on television that you can watch. Lots of great things for your children to watch. Our kids have been well versed in The Waltons. This is a great time of year to pull out The Waltons. It’s a great time of year to watch some of the old Christmas movies and really allow the Lord to just minister to your spirit because Ge wants to do that.

So I’m out of time for today. Thank you, Chelsea, for that email.

For those of you who would like to have your question featured here at Mailbox Monday please shoot me an email podcast@thebusymom.com.

Also, I want to remind you again today is the first day of the Bible Study for the month of December.

Becoming a member at MomStrong International is just two dollars a week. And your two dollars a week really does help this ministry. It really does go a long way, and we appreciate that! And for that two dollars, you’re going to get a fantastic Bible Study!

You will notice that starting this month we’re changing our format a little bit. We’ve added a component for those of you who want to go even deeper in your Bible Study. We’ve added a little bit of a digging deeper section for your reflection, for you.

We are also beginning a Spotify playlist! And so those of you who are on the Scripture Writing Challenge and have subscribed to the Bible Study – you will see that we are starting a Spotify playlist for you as well.

We’re trying to make this a little bit deeper, and a little bit richer for just two dollars a week. And I want to just tell you that your membership is helping us to get this podcast out there and to have a staff that maintains what we do here. We really appreciate that.

Also this time of year it’s a great time to give to the nonprofit organization that we run. It is called Firmly Planted Family. And you can reach out to us with your letters and your giving at 11100 NE 34th Circle Vancouver, Washington 98682.

Thanks for listening everybody and for leaving a review for this podcast! We greatly appreciate it!  Have a fantastic day and I’ll see you back here on Wednesday!

Podcast (hsj): Play in new window | Download (Duration: 23:26 — 16.1MB)

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“I think it’s worth it to declare Jesus to these people…” said John Chau, the young man who was killed as he went courageously to share Jesus with an unreached people group.  Was he foolish or brave? If we think he’s foolish, we have sorely forgotten what our Bible says about sharing the Gospel! Don’t miss it today.  It is worth it.

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John Chou News Article

Ann Dunagan is a missions leader with Harvest Ministry, director of Daring Daughters, mobilizer with Mission-Minded Families, and global-mom with 7 kids (and a growing number of married-in-spouses and grandchildren). Since 1987, the Dunagan family have been sharing the love of Jesus in over 100 nations, caring for 1000+ orphan children in Africa and Asia, and overseeing 450+ remote village churches. Ann’s books include:

The Mission-Minded Child (for parents)
The Mission-Minded Family (for parents),
Teaching With God’s Heart for the World, Volumes I and II (for homeschooling families)
The Scarlet Cord: Nothing but the Blood of Jesus (co-authored with her husband Jon Dunagan),
The Whole World Needs Jesus (for children),
and coming soon in 2018 . . . The Fishless Fisherman (for children)

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TRANSCRIBED VERSION OF THE PODCAST BELOW

This is Heidi St. John welcome to the Heidi St. John podcast. Today is Friday November 30th.

It’s meet-my-friend-Friday, and here at episode number 695 and as promised,my friend Ann Dunnagan, the founder of Daring Daughters, and the host of Mission-Minded Families is here in the studio with me today. We’re going to be talking about the recent death of a missionary to a Sentinel Island Tribe, Jonathan Chow.

Some of you are familiar with that story and it’s both inspiring and a good opportunity for us to talk about the importance of spreading the Gospel.

Stick around, I think you’re going to be encouraged.

All right. So here we are at the end of November. You guys know I love this time of year. I hope that you are enjoying the season with your family, and really focusing on what God is doing both in your family – and around the world.

God is always at work and He is at work here at MomStrong International. If you have not yet become a member at MomStrong International – I want to really encourage you to do that. It’s a great Christmas gift, by the way! – to just really encourage another mom to be in the word this year.

That’s really my heart is to see you get into the word and walk with God and follow Him with really an abandoned – that sets the next generation on fire for the Lord.

And that’s the thing I love so much about my friend Ann.

Ann Dunnagan is in the studio with me today. Ann directs Daring Daughters. And she’s the host of the Mission Minded Family Podcast. She’s a mom of seven kids who are all homeschool graduates right now. And she’s got grandkids coming out her ears, and I just love her passion for the lost and for families.

Ann welcome, I’m glad you’re here.

[Ann Dunnagan] Thank you, Heidi, I’m excited to be here!

[Heidi St. John] It’s nice to have you in the studio we’ve been friends for a long time but I think this is your first visit to Firmly Planted, yea?

[Ann Dunnagan] Yeah, this Firmly Planted Homeschool Resource Center is amazing! It is so much bigger and more glorious and just all of the life and the joy in this place is and it’s just beautiful.

[Heidi St. John] Thank you.

[Ann Dunnagan] I’m so impressed. It’s probably ten times bigger than I imagined from your Facebook posts and videos.

[Heidi St. John] You know, I can’t really do it justice on Facebook – but you and I have been talking a lot about just the grace of God and how He equips us and calls us – and that this place is like that.

And you have been the recipient of an extravagant grace, because every time I look at the things that your family does at Harvest Ministry, and your kids walking with the Lord now, and the books that you’ve written – I’m always encouraged.

And I thought it’d be fun, for the listeners here, who have never heard of you to just give a little bit of Ann Dunnagan 101.

So you don’t live too far from me, actually, which is why I got to have you in studio!

[Ann Dunnagan] Yeah, I’m just an hour and 15 minutes away, near Hood River, Oregon. My husband and son Mark, an adult son, they are actually over preaching today in Uganda at a ministers conference with pastors and national ministers from six nations across East Africa.

Ministering in our children’s home over there a good many Guma Na Yesu Children’s Center (which means: Keep with Jesus). And they’re just having a fabulous time. And like you mentioned we have seven kids and they are being fruitful and increasing so we have four of our kids that are already married, and a daughter that’s going to be getting married in a couple of weeks, and we are going on 13 grandbabies.

[Heidi St. John] Oh my goodness! It’s like grand babypalooza.

[Ann Dunnagan] Yeah. That’s it! It’s really cool when you think of where it’s your children are then having children.

It’s like you know that’s what we are trying to do with, you know, with being a Christian and in the body of Christ – is that we are to raise up other people who will raise up others.

And you know, train those who will train others, and disciple those who will disciple the next generation – and that’s what I love about this Homeschool Resource Center is you just really have such a heart for this generation. You know even the next generation of homeschoolers – it’s very exciting!

[Heidi St. John] Well I think it’s easy for us – you know you know I’ve had this conversation many times – it’d be easy for us to sort of cocoon ourselves, right? and just look at our own family and what we’re doing – and really, God is at work everywhere. And one of the things I love about you is that you’ve taken the heart of the Gospel, a great commission, and you’ve actually put feet to it.

So Harvest Ministry is the ministry you and your husband started this right?

[Ann Dunnagan] mmh, hmm. 1987

[Heidi St. John] So that’s that’s a long time of faithful mystery. How many years have you been married?

[Ann Dunnagan] We have been married over 33 years, and as a family, we have reached and shared the gospel into over 100 different nations all over the world. Our son and daughter in law just got back from Southeast India and Nepal – where their ministry and our ministry together founded a brand new children’s home there, Himalaya Daya, a Children’s Rescue Home. And anyway, it’s just very very exciting!

[Heidi St. John] It’s wonderful. In your heart, in The Mission-Minded Child, because we’re going to talk a little bit about The Mission-Minded Child.

You wrote The Mission-Minded Family and The Mission-Minded Child and you really have a heart to see parents equipping their children to have a worldview that doesn’t just include themselves!

[Ann Dunnagan] Yes!

[Heidi St. John] Right – beyond what the culture, especially here in the United States, beyond what we tell our children. And that’s really kind of the heartbeat behind The Mission-Minded Child – because I want to get into a little bit of the meat of why you wrote The Mission-Minded Child and then I’d like to kind of transition the conversation to talking about Jonathan Chow – this young man who – from here, from Vancouver who lost his life recently sharing the Gospel, and kind of get your thoughts on that.

When you wrote The Mission-Minded Child, because I know there a lot of parents who are listening to this who have young children at home. So, maybe they’re a parent who has a young very young like a newborn at home, or an 8-year-old, or a 10-year-old, 12-year-old – and they’re trying to live out the gospel in such a way that their children will want to live it out and their children beyond them because it’s really generational. What’s the heartbeat behind The Mission-Minded Child?

[Ann Dunnagan] It’s raising the next generation to fulfill God’s purpose. David Livingston said:

This generation can only reach this generation

And, it’s raising up our children to have a passionate heart for the Gospel and the great commission – it doesn’t mean they’re gonna be missionaries. You know we like to say:

missions is not just for missionaries, God’s call is for all

And we like to tell our children, like- Do you get it? – or if they have a really close friend or a romantic interest – it’s like – OK, do they get it?. Like, do they get what the kingdom of God is all about?

We have always wanted just to instill in our children and to encourage parents, and teachers, and homeschoolers – to, you know, raise up children that will be passionate for the gospel and for people everywhere to hear of the name of Jesus. And something that, you know, with this whole story of this young very adventurous missionary guy and, John Chau, that went out you know to…

[Heidi St. John] and three of your kids knew him right?

[Ann Dunnagan] three of our children knew him and you know had taken classes with him.

[Heidi St. John] and my two oldest daughters knew him

[Ann Dunnagan] I have many different friends that that knew him and – just were very impacted by his life. You know I didn’t know him personally.

But something, that is kind of grievous to my heart, is when so many Christians are just, you know, rising up and just saying :

oh, he was just so foolish. he never should have done that. he didn’t have permission to go to that place. and he shouldn’t have gone in there. they he could have brought the flu and they all could have died

In generations, there are always frontrunners that go and take the gospel and take risks. I mean, throughout our lives we have taken the gospel into many different places. We smuggled Bibles into China. That was not – you know, we disobeyed the rules to do that. We actually once got caught and brought down and got in trouble and hid in a border as we were trying to smuggle Bibles into the underground church in China.

We’ve had times where – sometimes in certain situations, we kind of think of you know – sometimes you ask for forgiveness you don’t ask for permission because you just want to go and preach.

[Heidi St. John] Yeah.

[Ann Dunnagan] You know God has given us permission to go and preach the gospel to all nations. And, you know, people could argue that maybe he didn’t use that the most wisdom or whatever. But, what I have seen is that he actually was praying for this people group – the Sentinelese People in this north-central island off of India, kind of in the middle of the sea of Bengal. But he, since high school …

[Heidi St. John] Yeah, they’d been on his heart.

[Ann Dunnagan] He was 26 when he died but it was probably seven to ten years that he had been praying and interceding for that group.

[Heidi St. John] So for people who aren’t familiar with the story, really quickly, I don’t know how you can’t be,  but I’m sure there are a lot of people who weren’t in on the news.

John Chau is an American missionary, and he was killed in a hail of arrows last week when he set foot on, North Sentinel Island and he believe that God sent him there.

And he wrote it,  we have copies now – they’ve been printed of his journals. He went, I think he went the day before, right, and a young boy on the shore shot an arrow at him. And according to John, it hit his Bible.

[Ann Dunnagan] it hit a waterproof Bible

[Heidi St. John] it hit a waterproof Bible and he wrote about it. I know my daughter, Sierra, who knew him, read this to me for a couple days with just tears in her eyes. “Mom he just loved the Lord and he knew that God had called him there”.

But he also knew the dangers he was facing, right? I mean he wrote

“God sheltered me and camouflage me against the Coast Guard and the Navy.”

He wrote that right before he arrived on North Sentinel Island. So he understood the dangers he was facing.  

What do you say to the parents who are listening? They’re thinking about their own child, right? I mean you’ve had children that have gone onto the mission field.

A lot of us are just you know terrified at the thought of sending our children out there. And you know, you’re right he has received a fair amount of criticism.

But I keep I keep hearing Jim Elliot in my head.

[Ann Dunnagan] yeah there’s the Jim Elliot quote where he says:

He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep gain what he cannot lose

And how years ago where Jim Elliot and the other missionaries that went into that Huaorani – it was that called the Auca tribe. But now it’s called the Huaorani people – but it was Jim Elliot, Pete Fleming,  Ed McCulley, Nate Saint, and Roger Youderian, they were missionaries that were martyred in Ecuador in 1956- in a very similar sort of thing.

They were, you know, they were trying to go in and reach these unreached people groups and they were killed by spears. And you know – something that’s very interesting is that Elisabeth Elliot, who you know she had written…

[Heidi St. John] Through Gates of Splendor

[Ann Dunnagan] Through Gates of Splendor, she wrote Passion and Purity – but she took the story of her husband and she then shared that story with the next generations.

And I really think just as we are, you know, seeing the situation that happened with this young man, or as we are recalling missionaries of the past and what they have done – is like – What are the stories that we are telling our children?

And, are we reading the missionary stories and highlighting these people that had would have the courage to go and to take the gospel to unreached people groups.

One of the things that John Chau wrote in his journal he says”

you guys might think I’m crazy and all this, but I think it’s worthwhile to declare Jesus to these people

And he put in this notion:

I love you all and I pray that you would give anything that others would know Jesus Christ

You know, he wanted to see this tribe in heaven. And I tell you with it being all over the news – it is stirring up just even a debate and awareness inside of the Christian circle that, you know – Do we really need to go and take the gospel to people who have never heard it before? Some people don’t think that.

I had a woman inside of a homeschool group that was like commenting about it. And she wrote:

Well if God wants to save those people he will do it without us

That was almost word for word like what was spoken to William Carey years ago when you know he was just this passionate young man with a heart to go and share the gospel with unreached people in India. And the older preachers of that time, and this was back in 1792, right around that time.

But, there was a preacher that said”

Sit down young man you are just an enthusiast. When God sees fit to convert the heathen He will do it without you or without me.

Well like it was almost word for word what I read the other day in a Christian homeschool circle.

[Heidi St. John] What goes through your head when you hear people say that? What’s your first reaction? My first reaction is: We’re not reading our Bibles.

[Ann Dunnagan] My first reaction is just – we are obligated to share the gospel with those who have never heard it before.

And and I don’t see it as like – you know, you have to do it – like you have to read your Bible, you have to go to church, you have to do this. It’s your obligation. You know – you have to clean your room. You know, you gotta do it.

I see it as when there is a burning passion in your heart out of just this love that – I love the Lord, and I know that he loves people and he died on the cross for our sins and that he wants for us to take the gospel to the nations! And it’s like – I can’t NOT do this it’s this BURNING love.

[Heidi St. John] Yeah.

[Ann Dunnagan] that is like I GOTTA do this.

[Heidi St. John] Yeah, yeah. And really that’s how his friends described him, that’s how Sierra remembers him. He was so passionate about Jesus. He wanted people to know Jesus the way he knows Him. He wanted people to have that same experience and he said that was his heart right for the Sentinelese People – was that they would know that God loved them.

[Ann Dunnagan] I think it’s important for Christians to realize that there are people who have never heard the gospel before. There are many people groups around the world, who are not just nations, but actual like ethnic groups over 11,500 different people groups around the world.

But there’s over 3000 that are that are unengaged, unreached people groups. It’s called UUPG – it’s like the most unreached. And this was actually an uncontacted group. So it’s even more remote than that.

And just for us to realize as Christians that there are people that have never heard the gospel before and people think – “oh you know, they probably just better off if we just you know leave them as they are… all cultures are good, and you know you just don’t want the big bad missionary to come on the scene.”

I just know in the work that we have done around the world people are never better off without Jesus. I mean, we have we have seen places where people worshipped – like in Uganda there was a place where people actually worshipped a large tree and would sacrifice children to that tree. Or, you know, places where there were terrorists doing things and it’s just people around the world who do not know Jesus. They are lost and we just need to have that compassion in our heart to go and to take the Gospel to those.

[Heidi St. John] When when you hear people talking about this, and we’ve talked you know we’ve seen it obviously – it’s in every news — in the it’s in the Washington Post, The New York Times – all over the news and people say:

oh he’s foolish for going there

I want to keep bringing people back to: Ultimately we have to we have to listen to and obey the Lord. There are a lot of people said was foolish for Jesus to give up His life. He didn’t have to go to the cross.

I remember reading to my daughters the very first time the story of Jesus in the garden of Gethsemane. Basically saying: Lord if it’s your will,l take this cup for me.

And I feel in some ways in reading Jonathan Chau’s story, in some ways he was doing that. You know he was asking Lord:

actually, I don’t want to do this, but this is what you want me to do…

And he and he did it anyway,  and there’s a part of me, and in talking to my daughters and sort of processing this with our children – the struggle I think happens because sometimes we lose sight of eternity.

[Ann Dunnagan] Yeah.

[Heidi St. John] Jonathan never lost sight of eternity. Right? And we’re always telling our children – listen we’re just passing through here.

This world isn’t our home. I mean aren’t you glad? I’m glad! I’m more glad every day that this world isn’t my home. Because what we’re doing here we’re doing for eternity. And whether we understand Jonathan Chau’s decision to go over there, or are we even agree with it – as Christians, we should at least be – I hope, that it causes take to take a look back at why he did it and the importance of spreading the gospel. It seems like we don’t in this age of the internet, I kind of feel like somehow we’ve lost sight of the importance of spreading the gospel.

If you wanted to encourage a family – that this is how you raise a child that is mission-minded, that has an outward focus. What are a couple of things that you would tell those parents who are listening?  And we’re fearful as parents, right? We are!

How do you get past that fear and raise a child whose passion for Jesus is going to be the thing that drives him?

[Ann Dunnagan] I think it’s important for us as parents to realize we’re not raising our kids just to keep them safe. If we want to raise our children to be mighty arrows for the Lord, then we need to be able to release them into God’s purposes.

And, sometimes that may mean our children doing some things that may make us uncomfortable.

So I would just say to really encourage parents to raise their children to fervently love Jesus from the inside. That it’s not just legalistic requirements put on top of them, but to encourage and stir up a passionate love and heart for Jesus, personal prayer life, being in the word of God, and to be sensitive.

And even just teaching children to learn about different people and people groups around the world. There’s a book called Operation World that is learning how to pray for all the different nations of the world but there’s a brand new children’s version that’s out that’s called Window on the World. They just redid it just like couple weeks ago.

But just encourage children to pray for people and to have a heart for not just being selfish. But to have a heart of, you know – do unto others as you would have them do unto you if you. If you were stuck in some tribe where you never heard about Jesus before, and you had no way of hearing the Gospel – wouldn’t you want for someone to share the gospel with you?

And that’s how we received the gospel. We receive the gospel from people who risk their lives and people who did daring things. And, I just am very grateful for those who do take risks.

[Heidi St. John] Ann, when your children ask you questions like mine did about situations like this… you know, what I told my daughters, and I know Jay was talking to our kids about this or that it at the dinner table – was that ultimately we have to listen to the Lord.

We listen to the Lord, we obey the Lord, and we’re going to answer to the Lord ssomeday And people can call his hehavior reckless. And there was a part of me that was just like – Dude you knew. Right? I mean did you feel that way too?

[Ann Dunnagan] Definitely!

[Heidi St. John] Part of me was just like – You knew that this was illegal you knew the risks that you were taking, and he chose to go there anyway. But ultimately, he stands before the Lord.

And that’s kind of what we tried to tell our children. We don’t want to be foolish. We’re not sending our kids out into the world to be foolish.

You want them to be gentle as a dove and wise as serpent. To be wise about what’s going on around them, but to be driven by their love for the Lord Jesus and our love for other people.

And that kind of that kind of passion is what helps people start orphanages around the world. It’s what gets people involved in ministry. It’s it’s why we have so many mission organizations that have come out of places where people have been free to follow and serve the Lord Jesus instead of taking it for granted.

We say – Lord what what can I do with this extravagant gift that you’ve given me of a freedom to to serve you with a reckless abandon?  

And I’m sure you’ve read missionary stories to your kids right? you and I both share a passion for the missionary stories, and reading to your kids – those are simple things, righ? Read to your kids, engage with them about what missionaries are doing around the world – because missionaries are still at work!

[Ann Dunnagan] Yes! I have a friend who she actually posted about this whole story and she has been living with her family in Niger, West Africa for 20 years. And she posted the most beautiful picture of all of these. It was a classroom filled with remote ministers from Niger, West Africa that were praying for this people group. The Sentinelese People! They were praying that God would send others into that island, into that unreached people group. Just, you know, the Bible tells us that someday every nation, tribe, and tongue, and people will be before the Lord in heaven. That’s what I want to raise my kids is to be focused on eternity, focused on heaven and what really matters.

[Heidi St. John] I love that “focus on the journey”. If any but he’s been doing that with their life – my friend, it’s you. You encourage me!  

Ann, thank you so much for coming on the show today. It’s always a blessing to have you. If people want to find out more about you – Where can they do that?

[Ann Dunnagan] Mission-Minded Families.Org

[Heidi St. John] Are you still doing your podcast?

[Ann Dunnagan] Yes. Yes you are on iTunes: Mission-Minded Families with Ann Dunagan

[Heidi St. John] I love it! So, for those of you who want more information about Ann Dunagan and her ministry, I will link back to her in the show notes today.

If you have a guest idea or a show idea or you would like your question featured at mailbox Monday please shoot me an e-mail at podcast@thebusymom.com!

I hope you guys have enjoyed this today and you have a fantastic weekend and I’ll see you back here on Monday.