Today I have a special treat for you … I’ve invited my daughter Savannah and her husband, Ryan, on the show to have a “living room” conversation about the birth of their baby girl, Juniper. This is a raw, real look inside our tight-knit family… and I think it will bless and encourage you.
Family and a caring community is so important during pregnancy and the postpartum. I’ll be honest: you guys, the first week of Junie’s birth was hard. We all know the weeks around having a baby are expected to be challenging, but adding the stress of this COVID situation is certainly not helping things. Savannah struggled with severe postpartum anxiety—and the Lord helped us through in some pretty amazing ways.
Many of us know someone who’s pregnant right now (you might even be pregnant yourself!) and I think you’ll be encouraged to hear Savannah and Ryan share their story—unfiltered—about what they learned and what they did that helped.
Transcribed version of podcast is below.
Today’s Scripture Writing Challenge Verse
- Colossians 2:20-23
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Hey everybody. How you doing? This is Heidi St. John. Welcome to Off the Bench With Heidi St. John. Today is Wednesday, May 13th. This is episode number 923. Moment of silence, that’s a lot you guys. Thanks for tuning in today. How you guys doing in pandemic-ville? I hope everything’s going alright. I got a treat for you guys today. I have been talking to you guys for a couple of weeks now about just anticipating the birth of our granddaughter, Juniper. And I told you a little bit about it, and I’ve got a special treat today, because my daughter and my son-in-law are here in the studio with me, and we’re going to talk all things encouraging moms in the season of postpartum. Stick around, I think you’re going to be encouraged.
So thanks for tuning in today. Couple of themes that are going on you guys. First of all, my girl, Melissa, you guys know Melissa works for me, and over at Heidi St. John, Inc, which I’m an incorporation now, I don’t know if you guys know that. Melissa and I had an idea a couple of weeks ago, because of all of the questions that we’re getting at Mailbox Monday, and a lot of the focus of the podcast for the last several weeks here has been how to care for your family when the world is on fire.
So we thought we would come on here together, and we’re going to give you guys some ways to sort of cope. And then the more we thought about it the more we thought, “You know what, this is actually a class.” And so that’s what we’re going to do. We’re going to host a class and give you guys some lifestyle ideas for you. We’re going to talk about essential oils. We’re going to talk about things that you can do to boost your body during times of crisis.
And I know you guys, it feels like the world’s on fire, because it is, and it’s harder for some of us, I think to bear it than others, but we all still have a daily life to manage. Your kids are still up all night with sicknesses; sometimes they got belly aches and don’t sleep well. Moms are still dealing with hormonal teenagers and maybe their own hormones. Hello, we’re going to talk a lot about hormones today.
And so if you guys will join me, here’s what we’re going to do May 19th through the 22nd, so you don’t have any place to be. I know that because no one does. So put it on your calendar, May 19 through 22nd. It’s a four day Facebook class that we’re going to be hosting. And I’m going to share about some of my favorite oils for stress management and anything that matters to me right now, with regard to how we can stay healthy in the midst of all this.
So you can either join us on Facebook for a Facebook live May 19th through 22nd, or we can do a Zoom call May 20th at 7:00 PM central time. You guys can register at thebusymom.com/oils, and all the links are going to be right up at the top. You guys are not going to want to miss it.
We’ve appreciated the support that you are offering the podcast and Firmly Planted Family right now. Many of you in the last couple of weeks have been sending in financial support and we cannot say thank you enough for that. The resource center has been closed right now. It looks to be closed indefinitely, and we appreciate your prayers and support. I’m going to link back to, in the shown notes today, ways that you can support us and reach out to us, even if it’s a postcard or a letter, as we take pictures of those and we send them to the staff. So we really appreciate that right now, especially.
I’m excited today, because I’m going to do something I haven’t done before, and I’m going to interview my daughter and her husband. And we’re going to talk a little bit about postpartum and just sort of get real about it. And a couple of weeks ago, actually, Juni, I think was three weeks old yesterday, and she’s cute you guys, I’m not going to lie. If you’re not following me on Instagram, you’re missing out on the cutest baby that you’ve ever seen in your whole life, and that’s no joke.
And Juniper Star was born three weeks ago, and a couple of days after that, Savannah started having some pretty big, just emotional issues, especially. And so she came to my house to stay for a little bit. And I asked her if she and her husband could come on and just encourage parents about the importance of having a support system during the time when you have a baby, because it’s really important. I think our culture doesn’t really get that anymore.
So I’m super thrilled. You guys are here, Savannah and Ryan. Welcome to the podcast.
[Savannah] Thank you.
[Ryan] Thank you.
[Heidi] Look how cute you guys are sitting there with your little baby. Savannah, your little wearing your baby.
[Savannah] Yeah. She’s pretty sweet.
[Heidi] So you guys it’d be fun … Oh, she’s going to make noises. It’s going to be so cute. So how many years have you been married? Let’s start there because let’s start at the very beginning. Let’s do that. So how many years have you guys been married?
[Savannah] Seven; it’ll be eight years in August. It’s going by really fast.
[Heidi] Yeah, no kidding.
[Savannah] And we figured out the other day that I’ve spent about two and a half of those years pregnant.
[Heidi] That’s what happens, right?
[Heidi] These are the things we talked about, right? And you guys have three kids now, two little boys, and now you got your little girl and she’s pretty cute. And this time around, you delivered a baby in the middle of a pandemic and that was a little stressful. She’s burping. That was a little stressful. How did that go down?
[Savannah] It was, I feel like I went through waves of trusting God and then just waves of mourning the losses of the things that I was really looking forward to, as I would just realize as I got closer and closer, just different things that I’d be missing out on. Didn’t get to have a baby shower, and I was excited about that because we’re celebrating our first girl. And a baby is something that you want to share with your friends and your family. And I just have looked forward to celebrating with people and to work all those nine months to get up to a point and have it be like—Nope, you don’t get to celebrate this with your friends or your family, it’s going to be by yourself; that was pretty hard. And then just fear with the hospitals, hearing different things happening in hospitals, where some hospitals weren’t allowing any support person to come in with a laboring mom. And that whole time I was so afraid of laboring by myself. And then afterwards I realized it wasn’t the labor that I needed help. And it was after those couple of days where we were in the hospital. I don’t know what I would have done without Ryan there with me.
[Heidi] Yeah. Well, she cried, didn’t she? That whole first 24 hours?
[Savannah] She did, the first 24 hours, she did not sleep at all. I don’t know. Sometimes she’d fall asleep for a half an hour, but it was never more than an hour at a time. Most times she was up and she was cluster feeding. So which all the nurses and stuff were like, “Oh, she’s cluster feeding.”
[Heidi] Look how sweet that is.
[Savannah] Like, she only ever wants to eat. So yeah, so that was challenging.
[Heidi] And you had Ryan, I mean, Ryan…
[Savannah] I did, yeah.
[Heidi] Actually, I will say hats off to you. They made you deliver with a mask on ho-ho, right?
[Savannah] And I got tested for COVID. So I’ve done the nose thing.
[Heidi] That’s no fun.
[Savannah] It is not fun.
[Heidi] No, it’s terrible.
[Savannah] It is not, but I’m negative. So at least I think I’m negative. They said they’d get back to me if I was positive.
[Heidi] Yeah. We’re kind of making this up as we go along.
[Savannah] So far, I haven’t heard anything. So, I’m going with negative.
[Heidi] I thought so interesting too, because they were a big thing about the support person and they let you in Ryan, right? And did they test you for COVID when you went into the hospital?
[Ryan] No, they didn’t just her and it looked terrible. So I feel really bad for her, but I’m glad I didn’t get tested. It’s like, imagine a Q-tip that’s about a foot long that they shove starting in your nose all the way to what looks like the back of your head, which I’m pretty sure it’s how they mummify people, right? It’s something along those lines.
[Heidi] I think so, yeah.
[Ryan] It looked terrible. Savannah’s eyes were watering. And like, “All right, let’s time it in between the contractions where we’ll shove this huge Q-tip up your face.” And so it looked horrible. And so I did not envy her for that one. But no, they didn’t test me. So we have no idea. I might have coronavirus right now. I might, I don’t know.
[Heidi] You might, yeah. I mean I’m terrified just sitting across … Would you please go get tested? I don’t even know if we should be in the same room. You’re scaring me right now. But then, so they don’t test you, which I thought was interesting, because this was such a big deal about letting support people in the hospital.
[Savannah] It just doesn’t make sense.
[Heidi] It makes no sense at all. And then they make you labor with a mask on. And I remember you texting me at some point during your labor. And I was like, “Are they making you wear a mask?” And you said yes. And I said, “Man, I’d throw that thing across the room,” but you didn’t, you did the whole thing.
[Savannah] I did. They would have, let me, actually, when I was pushing, they were like, “You can pull it down. It’s okay.” The doctors and nurses were really sweet about it.
[Heidi] I love that.
[Savannah] Which was a mercy from the Lord. I felt like I was so afraid going in. I wanted you with me so bad.
[Heidi] Me too. I had a good cry over it.
[Savannah] I wanted Sierra there. Yeah. I know it just sucked; it was so lame. But I know one thing that you were praying and that we were praying is that we would get good nurses and doctors, because that makes all the difference in the world. And we had such a great team and they were so kind. And so really, I kept my mask on … If I had taken it off, they would have let me; they were so nice. But I felt bad, because it’s really like to protect them. And so I’m like yeah. And so I just kept the temperature in there really cold; it was freezing.
[Heidi] I know Ryan said it was like a morgue.
[Savannah] Yeah. Every time a nurse would come in, they’re like, “Oh, do you want me to turn the temperature up?” I’m like, “No, I’m hot.” And especially the mask makes you hot. But honestly, I didn’t really notice, it didn’t bother me. They were like, “You can pull your mask down,” and I didn’t care.
[Savannah] I was a little distracted. I wasn’t really focused on the mask.
[Heidi] Well, I think once you … And I know it’s going to encourage a lot of people and this is going to get shared a lot, because there are a lot of women right now who are getting ready to deliver. And they’re getting ready to deliver in the middle of the pandemic; it’s terrifying. They’ve been told just like you, you can’t have your support person. I know of women because they write into the podcast that have had to deliver alone, and that’s so sad. And I love how the Lord so beautifully answered your prayers for the birth of Juniper. You had a great delivery and you’ve had an emergency C section, so you know that things can go wrong, and you had a great delivery.
[Savannah] Yeah. Yeah. It was my best delivery for sure.
[Savannah] It was filled with so much peace, and afterwards the doctors and nurses were like, “Thank you for letting us deliver your baby. That was so wonderful. You guys were so great.” And we were like, “No, thank you.” So yeah, God’s gracious definitely with us and lots of answered prayers. So I was thankful for that, because I was very scared going into it with all this stuff going on and everything. So yeah, that was good.
[Heidi] And Ryan, you did a really good thing too. You set up a group text for … What did you call it? You call it … What did you call it? I can’t remember the name of the group text for Juni’s birth. It was so cute.
[Ryan] It was baby squad or something like that.
[Heidi] Yeah. Baby squad or something, it’s super cute. And then what we ended up doing was just waiting for updates from you, which I think it made everybody not feel so isolated. So I think that part was important. Just, I know your parents were on there and you guys have siblings coming out your ears and people who are really want to be a part of what’s happening and feel like they’re there. So I think that was something that was important too. Yeah.
[Ryan] Yeah. That was huge. One thing that was really interesting and unique about the whole thing is, Juniper met her brothers over FaceTime. And so actually she met just about everybody over FaceTime. And so we would just yeah, FaceTime different family members. And it was definitely a really unique time. But again, even through that, and that was probably one of the biggest heartaches for me, was not being able to bring the boys into the hospital to meet their baby sister. And so that was a really tough thing. They’re six and four, so I don’t know how much they care.
[Heidi] But you care.
[Ryan] Yeah, exactly, we care. So it was a hard thing. But again, through all of it, I was just so thankful for just the faithfulness of the Lord and really His presence with us in the midst of it. Because we were anticipating this loss of so many people not being able to be there that we originally wanted to be there, but what we gained was just the Lord’s presence in a way that we wouldn’t have had otherwise.
And so looking back, we’re so thankful just for His faithfulness in the midst of that. And as hard as it was, as crazy as it was, God was so faithful and just brought such a peace, a peace that was tangible even to the doctors and nurses, which was really cool. And so, it was a neat testimony in the midst of a really crazy time.
[Heidi] That’s awesome. And Savannah said that it really brought you guys closer together. Was that kind of what you felt like too? Like, “Hey man,” you’re in this, there’s nobody else there. And it was kind of a bonding thing, which I think is really cool.
[Ryan] Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Both, metaphorically and literally, because they lock you basically, they don’t literally lock you, but they quarantine you in the hospital room; you can’t leave. And so, we were very close for a long time, especially through the sleepless nights and all of that. It was cool, it was an extra weight, but it was also just an extra privilege to be Savannah’s only support person through that. And so really, even trying to be sort of the incarnation of Christ for her during this time, was certainly a high level of responsibility, but also just a really neat thing that the Lord was able to call me to do in the midst of the labor and delivery.
[Heidi] And I think so many men listening need to hear that. Your wife actually needs you in there. It’s a big deal.
[Ryan] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And she did so awesome. I’m just so proud of just her strength and just how well she…
[Heidi] Superwoman all laboring with a mask on.
[Ryan] Oh, I know it’s amazing. Yeah. It’s incredible. And, and just really thankful that the labor and delivery just went as well as it did.
[Heidi] So that’s awesome. So then, you get home and how did it go when you got home?
[Savannah] It started before I got home.
[Heidi] Yeah, that’s right. So she’s born…
[Savannah] Our first night in the hospital … Yeah. So it’s so interesting and I feel like I learned so much about the Lord and just how he walks with us through fire. Like walking with the Lord doesn’t mean that … Like, we’re saying how amazing it was and how the Lord was with us. And he was, and there were so many things we were thankful for, that doesn’t mean that it wasn’t hard. This one emotionally, I had, it has been the hardest, I think out of all the kids. So the labor was the best, was the easiest, and then the postpartum stuff has definitely been a way different caliber than I remember with the kids, with the boys.
So yeah, that started in the hospital. I had always heard of postpartum depression, but I had never heard of postpartum anxiety. And it really hit me out of nowhere. Well, she was born at 5:00 in the morning, so our first night there…
[Heidi] You didn’t sleep.
[Savannah] I didn’t sleep. I was laboring all night.
[Savannah] So then we stayed all day and then our next night, we stayed one more night in the hospital, I could not sleep. I mean, she wasn’t sleeping, but even when he was taking her or when she would fall asleep for the half hour that she did at a time, I would lay there and rather than falling asleep, because I’m so exhausted, I was just riddled with anxiety. And I wasn’t thinking about anything in particular. It was like my body, my body was just freaking out.
[Heidi] It’s almost like you had an allergic reaction to stress.
[Savannah] Yeah. It was so bizarre. Anytime I would try to close my eyes, I would feel these waves of heat all over my skin. And it was like, my skin was just crawling and I couldn’t breathe, my heart was racing and I would have feelings like I’m going to die or something. It was terrible.
[Heidi] It is terrible.
[Savannah] And so, yeah, in the first 48 hours of her labor and then the next day, so the first 48 hours that she was here, I had two hours of sleep in all of that time. And so as each day went on and I wasn’t able to sleep because I would lay there with anxiety, I would become more exhausted. And it was terrible, it was absolutely horrible.
[Ryan] And those two hours, they were broken too. It wasn’t a nice two hour nap that she was able to get. They were broken up over those 48 hours. So yeah, it was a really tough time.
[Heidi] And you guys reached a point where, and me talking to you on the phone, where you just felt so overwhelmed. And I can’t remember if Ryan, if it was you that called at the house that night, or if it was Savannah. But it was late, right? I mean, because you made the decision to come and just bring the baby and come out to my house. And so, how’d that go down?
[Ryan] Yeah. The way that went down was, we were obviously able to leave the hospital and we’re real excited to bring our baby home, give her the tour of the house, have her eventually meet her siblings and hoping we’d sleep better. And at first, when we got home, it felt just so nice to be home. It felt so nice to be out of the hospital. You don’t have nurses coming and poking your baby, taking vitals every couple of minutes.
[Heidi] Jay, you want us to pass her off? You think keep her in here? Okay. Oops.
[Savannah] Are you sure about that?
[Heidi] All right. So okay, so in the interest of keeping it completely real, Juni decided to wake up. So now Papa has her.
[Ryan] That’s right.
[Heidi] It’s so cute. We’re all watching him out in the control room, and we’re like “Oh, it’s so sweet. Papa’s holding Juni.” So right, you guys get home and you’re given Juniper the tour of her new house, and how that’s going pretty good.
[Ryan] Yeah. So the way it worked was, as we took her from the hospital, it was nice to be able to leave, that first time of loading her in her car seat and putting her in the car. It’s always the safest drive home when you bring a new baby back from the hospital, right? Everybody else on the road are just maniacs going like 1000 miles an hour, like, “What’s wrong with you people? Come on, don’t you know there’s precious cargo here?”
[Heidi] That’s right.
[Ryan] And so you’re driving as carefully as you can, you get her home, you bring her out of the car, and we’re just so excited to give her the tour of the house. And it really was nice to be home right at first, right? It really was nice just to be able to sprawl out a little bit, even the fact that I could take crying Juniper into the other room so that Savannah could get some anxious rest, or Savannah could lay down anxiously.
And so we were really looking forward to that, and we were kind of settling in, in the afternoon and then going into the evening and we started a show. We were starting to watch an episode of The Chosen, which we’ve been really enjoying.
[Heidi] That’s so good, yeah.
[Ryan] And really looking forward to that, even just allowing that story, just to bring some peace and some calm in the midst of it. And we were about five minutes in maybe. And at this point it’s 9:00, 9:30 at night. And I look over and Savannah’s just balling, right? And I’m like, “What’s wrong?” As if that’s a good question.
[Heidi] As if she knows.
[Ryan] I know. I know. And then she’s like, “I think we should go to my mom’s house.” And I’m like “at 9:30 at night?” “Yeah. We just got to go.” And I’m like, “We’re going.”
[Heidi] Yep, we’re doing the thing.
[Ryan] And so TV goes off, all the lights go on. And I’m like, “All right, we’re ” So we start packing up and we probably didn’t get up there until 11:00, I think something like that, so it was very late. And of course, we’re sleep deprived, right? And just through a new baby phase, I think you really see why sleep deprivation is such an effective torture.
[Ryan] Because it is torture.
[Heidi] It is torture.
[Ryan] It’s terrible. Yeah. And so anyways, sleep deprived, driving, I’m like, “Don’t crash, don’t crash. Keep the eyes open, slap, slap, slap, slap.” Finally get up to the house around 11:00 and then spent quite a few days there.
[Heidi] Yeah, you did. And I remember Savannah coming in the house and the first thing she did was just start sobbing. And I think at this point, this is where I think the crux of what we’re talking about today is so important because postpartum families need support around them. You read about a magazine, “Oh they had a new baby. Isn’t that sweet?” But it’s actually really hard.
And I think oftentimes we don’t talk about the depression and the anxiety, or we think it’s much, much later and that certainly happens. But you had kind of almost an instant response to having this baby to where you’ve really felt like you were losing your mind. I remember you just telling me, because as soon as I saw you come in the house, you just started sobbing, right? Because there’s something good about seeing your mom. It doesn’t matter how old you are. Like, “Oh, that’s my mom.”
[Heidi] And also, it made me feel really good to be able to do something, because I wasn’t there when she was born. I didn’t feel like I could hardly see you before she was born, because we were trying to do the social distancing thing and all that. And so this was an opportunity for me to help you. And there is other people around who could hold the baby. But then your anxiety didn’t seem like it got better right away, right?
[Savannah] No, it went on for days. It was horrible. Yeah. I mean, I was worried that I was going to die. I thought after night after night of not sleeping, I was asking Ryan at 3:00 in the morning, “How long could you go without sleeping until you die?” Like, until I literally die because yeah. And laying there with my heart racing and the heat all over my skin and all that stuff, I thought I’m going to give myself a heart attack. I don’t know. I was spiraling out of control and yeah, it was really, really hard. And it really skews your perception of what’s real and what isn’t. And I was worried I’d be that way for the rest of my life.
[Heidi] Yeah, well because it feels like that in the moment.
[Savannah] It’s such a dark place.
[Heidi] Yeah, it is. And I’m curious, so now you’re at our house and there’s so many kids there. I mean, for goodness’ sake, we’ve got kids who want to hold the baby— sister, siblings who were going to stay up all night and hold her, and I think they did that several times. But what were the things that you, because this is what I want listeners to come away with. What were some things that really helped you guys, both of you, to where you felt like … Because you were there for, I don’t know, four days, four nights or something like that, but when you went home, you were a different person. So something definitely switched in that point. So what were the things that were the most helpful to you?
[Savannah] I feel like one of the things that was the most helpful to me, that as days went on, I kept starting to point it out all the time, because I felt bad, but I was like a broken record. I am someone who has to process through talking. I have to talk through things to process.
[Heidi] Yeah, I’m that way.
[Savannah] And I was processing so much of about how I felt and I needed people to just listen to me and to just listen and to tell me, “I’m so sorry, let me try to help you.” I needed help. I needed solutions. I needed help. But I felt bad, because I kept telling you like, “I’m so sorry. I know I keep talking about this.” And I was literally, I think I was saying the same things over and over and over again for days.
[Heidi] Yeah, you’re right. You’re not wrong.
[Savannah] But I needed that. I needed to be able to talk it out and to process it and not have someone go, “You need to get over this and stop talking about it.” So having people listening was huge. I needed people to be speaking truth into me, because I was not thinking truth in my head. And it was really hard for me to get there.
And so having other women in particular, who had been through labor and birth to just say, “This is totally normal, it’s normal. You’re not dying. It’s okay.” Now that I look back, I’m like, well of course I wasn’t dying. But in the moment to hear that and to hear their stories, “This is how I felt, this is what I did, this is how much I cried. This is how …” That was really helpful to me and for people to be praying over me. I had you, and Aunt Haley, and grandma, and Jody and other people who would lay hands on me and just pray over me. And that was huge for me.
[Heidi] And I think just the permission to cry.
[Savannah] Oh yeah.
[Heidi] There were so many moments, you would just be sitting on the couch, poor Ryan would look so bewildered. You sit on the couch and then just we could tell, we’re having normal conversations and I would look over at you and your eyes are kind of starting to flood. And I’m like, “Oh man, she’s going to go. She’s going to break; the dam’s going to break.” And so I think we just looked at you, because we could tell.
[Savannah] You’re like, “It’s okay. Just do it, Savannah, just cry.
[Heidi] We just said, “You know what, just cry. Let those hormones leak out your eyes,” because that’s what’s happening.
[Savannah] Because I was ugly crying. I know.
[Heidi] It was the ugly cry too, man.
[Savannah] It does feel good though, afterwards. It truly is just a hormonal response. There’s no reason I’m crying. I just am. And afterwards I’m like, “Yeah, I feel better.”
[Heidi] I feel better.
[Savannah] Until the next time.
[Heidi] Until the next time. And I think to take that embarrassment and the shame away from it-
[Savannah] Yeah. That was huge.
[Heidi] To be able just to say, I think you’re right. Those women, it’s so important. The women who have been there and done that and can say, “Oh my goodness. I remember that. That happened to me.” And I remember at one point I looked up all the symptoms for postpartum anxiety and I read them to you.
[Savannah] Oh, every single one nail on the head.
[Heidi] Check, check, check, check, check. And then we read, “These will subside in 6 to 12 days.” And I remember the look on her face, Ryan, when Savannah just was like, “Oh.” It was just like, kind of a light bulb moment.
[Savannah] Even to hear I’m textbook experiencing something that is normal. And yeah, even like loss of appetite, I hardly ate anything. I just, I couldn’t eat.
[Heidi] Chicken soup.
[Savannah] I loved your chicken soup. Yeah. That was really helpful, you making me food.
[Heidi] That recipe’s on my blog, by the way; chicken soup.
[Savannah] She had some leftover chicken soup and she gave me the rest of her leftovers, which was a sacrifice, because you were saying you were going to eat that. And I loved it. It was like the only thing that I could eat. And so the next day you made a whole bunch of it, and I ate probably half of that.
[Heidi] I think you just lived on chicken soup.
[Savannah] I know, it was so comforting.
[Heidi] Full of vitamin B.
[Savannah] So good.
[Heidi] So you guys have been such an encouragement. I noticed so many people who are listening to this today. I would love to carry this over one more day. So pick it up on Friday and talk about some ways that you guys realized that you were really getting help, and then let you take some of that help that you’ve just been given and pass it on to other people. So would you guys be willing to come back on Friday and we can finish talking about this together?
[Savannah] Heck yeah.
[Ryan] We’ll be there.
[Savannah] Thank you so much, you guys, I’m excited. So you guys can come back on Friday. We’re going to pick this conversation up again and leave you with some encouragement in really unprecedented times. You guys, we can encourage each other together. So thanks for listening today. And we’ll see you back here on Friday.
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Heidi St. John
c/o Firmly Planted Family
11100 NE 34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682
Support this ministry by donating through E-giving. You can also send donations to: 11100 NE34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682