Submit your questions to MailBox Monday: podcast@heidistjohn.com

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Priscilla Shirer is an international speaker and Bible teacher, New York Times bestselling author, and actress with credits including the movie WAR ROOM, which was the #1 movie in America its second weekend in theaters, and 2018’s smash hit I CAN ONLY IMAGINE. She and her husband, Jerry, lead Going Beyond Ministries, which provides spiritual support and resources to the body of Christ.

Connect with Priscilla Shirer: Instagram | Facebook
Overcome Movie: Website | Instagram | Facebook
Connect with Going Beyond Ministries:  Website | Instagram | Facebook

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Don’t Miss These!

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TRANSCRIPTION:

This podcast is brought to you by the HSJ CONFERENCE held in Lees Summit, MO Saturday Aug 24

Hey everybody, this is Heidi St. John. Welcome to the Heidi St, John podcast. Today is Friday, August 23rd. This is episode number 809 coming to you from Kansas City. This is also meet My Friend Friday and here today I’ve got a very special guest on the show with me, author and Speaker Priscilla Shirer is here to talk about her new movie and why discipleship of a new generation is more important than ever. 

Stick around, I think you’re going to be encouraged.

Before we get started today, I’ve got a couple of announcements. First of all, thanks for listening to the podcast and for sharing it and leaving reviews over at iTunes. We’re thrilled to see how God is growing the platform. But, more exciting to me is hearing the stories of listeners who are getting off the bench and onto the battlefield and really engaging with the culture around them for the sake of the gospel. I love to hear your stories. You can send them to me podcast@heidistjohn.com. Also coming up, I’m going to be in Lee’s Summit, Missouri—just outside of Kansas City—for the Heidi St. John Conference. This year’s theme is Miracle Worker: The Life Changing Power Of Following Jesus. Tickets are still available at the door. We’re asking that you arrive early to make sure that you get a great spot. We’re going to start at 9:00 AM with worship, and then I’ll be diving right into teaching after that. We cannot wait to see you. 

For those of you who aren’t in the Lee’s Summit area, I’ll be in Fredericksburg, Virginia on September 14th and in Vancouver, Washington, my hometown, October 12th. Then on October 19th I’ll be in Lincoln, Nebraska. These are all Heidi St. John Conference dates. We’re in the middle of our study on Integrity at MomStrong International and we’re growing every day. You can download the free Scripture Writing Challenge and sign up to study with us at MomStrongInternational.com.

Without further ado, I’m thrilled today to introduce you to a new friend that I’ve made. I’ve been a fan of Priscilla Shirer for years and what I really appreciate about her is her unwavering commitment to rightly divide God’s Word. She is encouraging tens of thousands of women and men with her speaking. She is a busy mom. She’s a well known Bible teacher and a conference speaker, the founder of Going Beyond Ministries and a New York Times best selling author. Most of you guys are familiar with Priscilla and she’s got a brand new movie coming out: Overcomer. It out in theaters today. You guys, that’s today and it’s being brought to you by the same team that brought us War Room. You guys have been listening to me for a long time. You know how much I loved that movie. I hope you’ll go see it. Priscilla and her husband Jerry live in Dallas, Texas with their three sons. Priscilla, welcome to the show.

[Priscilla] Hi, thanks so much for having me. I’m glad to be here. 

[Heidi] So you’re a busy lady. I’ve got a lot of questions for you today. Thanks for taking the time to come on the show with me. I know lots and lots of moms listen to this and they’re all doing what you’re doing—they’re schooling their kids and trying to get it all done. You have three boys, right? 

[Priscilla] I sure do. 

[Heidi] And how, how old are they?

[Priscilla] They are 16, 15, and 10.

[Heidi] Right on. You’re in the vortex. You got the teenage thing going on. 

[Priscilla] Oh yes. 

[Heidi] And so you started out as a Bible teacher, right? You went to seminary there in Dallas, is that right?

[Priscilla] Yes, I did.

[Heidi] How did you go from Bible teacher to acting in films? Because I imagine there’s a story. 

[Priscilla] Well, it’s a very quick story, to be honest. It’s never anything in my wildest dreams that I would’ve ever considered, or planned for, or strategize for. When I look back on it, most of everything that the Lord has brought to our lives and entrusted to us in ministry, isn’t something that I could have ever imagined. This is no different. One day I got a call from the Kendrick brothers. They called my husband and I remember we were driving down the road. We had him on speaker phone and they said— listen, we are writing a movie on prayer and the main character is Elizabeth Jordan. Every time we’re writing lines for her, we are thinking to ourselves—what would Priscilla say? So we’ve been writing the whole movie that way and it just occurred to us that we should call you and ask you to do it.

When they said that me—my initial response right off the bat was, I said: no, are you kidding me? I’m not an actress. That’s not what I do. I’m in ministry. They said— well, Priscilla, we want you to pray about it. When you read the script, which we’re going to send you, I think you’ll discover it’s not a movie. It is ministry. So now that we’ve seen War Room, people who have seen it might’ve been entertaining as well, but it’s really ministry—and that’s what the Kendrick brothers are doing. They’re just preaching on a big screen and hoping to really affect the hearts of people for the glory of God.

[Heidi] Yeah, well War Room definitely had that effect all around the country. The thing that’s cool to me about your story, and getting into movies, and what the Kendrick brothers are doing is— it kind of shows us that God’s always in the business of reinventing how the gospel gets shared. And it’s a different generation and you guys are reaching a brand new generation of people with the message of the gospel, doing it through movies and through books. Something that I’ve been passionate about here at the podcast for many years is looking at a generation that is desperate. They are desperately in need of Christians who are mature in their faith, who will come alongside and mentor them and disciple them. This is something you guys are really hitting. You’re hitting on this in the movie Overcomer. Why would you say that discipleship and mentoring is more important now than it’s ever been? 

[Priscilla] Well, because so much transformation happens one on one and we need community. We need the breadth of the body of Christ in a corporate setting, but also is only so deep you can go in a corporate setting. But when I’m sitting across from you over a cup of coffee and when we’re engaged in each other’s lives and the nuances of each other’s daily lives— well now I get to interact with you, hold you accountable, encourage you when you’re down. There is an insight and reach into your life that cannot happen unless you have someone willing to pour into you and you having a willingness to be vulnerable with someone else. 

[Heidi] Yeah, that’s right. What do you say to the person who’s listening to this right now, and they can see discipleship opportunities around them, but they don’t feel equipped. Let’s say they’re just like—well, I don’t know… I haven’t been walking with the Lord my whole life…I’m new in the Lord…I’ve only been walking with the Lord for a couple of years. If a person like that wants to a disciple, somebody else, can they do it? 

[Priscilla] Oh, I absolutely think they can because discipleship is not just about a Scriptural knowledge or something. Discipleship is about leading, meaning that your example is still one worth following if you’re honoring God with your actions. It doesn’t mean you have everything together. It doesn’t mean you’re perfect. You can still be working stuff out in your life, and in fact that can be some of the most powerful mentoring when they get to see that you’re not perfect, that you actually are still working through things just like they are — that you need a Savior your just as much as they do.

I love the authenticity that is provided when you have a mentor that says—listen, let me tell you my pitfalls from when I was 20 and 18 and 25 and then 30, the stuff that I did that I shouldn’t have done and I wish I would have known better. I’m willing to show you my scars so that you don’t have to have the same ones. 

[Heidi] Yeah, it’s so good. It’s that authenticity. I started blogging maybe 15 years ago, and I was trying to give mom’s encouragement. I was talking about crockpots, things that I was doing in the midst of raising seven children. One day I forgot to plug the crockpot in and I was talking about this great recipe, and my husband was coming home from the church and we were going to have chicken. About three o’clock in the afternoon I was like— why does my house not smell like chicken enchilada? I realized— oh, for goodness sake, I forgot to plug it in. So I hopped onto Facebook and I said: hey you guys, turns out I’m not going to have dinner. What can I do with one can of stewed tomatoes and some olives? And you know what I realized then? People were more encouraged by hearing me say— I failed but I wasn’t going to give up, than they ever would’ve been by me saying—hey, look at my house is perfect, my crockpot dinners turning out. You’re kind of finding the same thing as true. Right? 

[Priscilla] Absolutely. People grow by and appreciate the authenticity of people that they’re doing life with. We all have a tendency to see people from afar, listen to their podcast, or watch them on a stage— and we think they’re perfect. Our imagination plays those tricks on us. It makes them think their life is just like that one Instagram picture that we saw them post. So we chalk their whole life up to that experience. When people are willing to say— I actually am a mess and I didn’t turn the crockpot on and I’m sitting here currently…. Priscilla Shirer is sitting here looking at her unmade bed and kind of room is a little bit a tornado and there’s laundry to fold— it’s real life and we’re all living it. We get the opportunity through our issues and our vulnerability to see how we need to all grow together. There’s community and friendship in that. 

[Heidi] Yeah, I love it. One of the things I love about your book Radiant, and I’ve had a chance to skim it and I can tell it’s going to be inked up and highlighted all over the place. There’s a section in the book where you start talking about a mistake that you made and you got pulled over and you talk about how we mess up in life. You said sometimes we float into restricted areas. We look up, we veered out of the line and we need a serious course correction. Then you go into talking about coming back to the Lord and how God sees us when we mess up and this idea of turning to the Lord. For listeners who’ve never heard of your new book Radiant, maybe this idea is kind of new to them, this idea of returning. Because really, it’s repeated throughout the Bible—not because God doesn’t like us, but because He loves us and He wants us to come back to Him. So why have you hit so hard and so well on this particular topic in Radiant? 

[Priscilla] Yes, I want everyone to know that there is never a time that’s too late for you to make wise choices, for you to line up with the truth of Scripture. In the illustration that you’re referring to, I talked about a day driving down the street where I kind of went into autopilot. You know where you’re driving and maybe you’ve taken a route so many times that you just maybe disengage even though you’re there, you’re aware, but you’re kind of disengaged from the details of it? And I’ve veered over into the HOV-lane, not knowing that I was in the Hov-lane until I was walled in on both sides. I saw a police officer up ahead and I thought—oh, you know that panic you get a panic chest. 

[Heidi] Yes! It’s the worst! 

[Priscilla]  Yes! So I had to make a split decision. Was I gonna race by and hope he didn’t catch me? No, I decided that’s not good. I know he’s going to catch me. Let me just go ahead and slow down and pull over behind him. And that’s exactly what I did. He came to the window and I told him that I had just kind of veered over, not meaning to, and they kind of smacked me on the back of my hand a little bit, playfully. And he said— well, get out of this lane as soon as you can little woman. So that’s what I did. I exited as soon as I had the opportunity, and I thought— what a great opportunity to demonstrate the grace of God. 

When His presence convicts us…. when we’re in the wrong lane: we know we shouldn’t be in this relationship, we know we shouldn’t be having this attitude toward that particular person—don’t try to speed by, don’t try to act like God isn’t there, like He isn’t present, don’t think He’s going to be mad or angry at you. NO, pull over, slow down. He’s going to come and see about you. And yes, he’s going to address it. He’s going to tell you to get out of the lane as soon as you possibly can. But, you have every opportunity to exit at the first sign of a relief to turn around and go back the other way. So I do harp on that because I want people to know there’s always hope.

[Heidi] Yeah. And the other thing that you said that I thought was so good and so healing is—your encouraging readers: don’t stay away and avoid God because you think He’s mad at you or you think He’s just turned His face away because He’s so frustrated. Instead, come back to Him because He loves you. He sees you from a different perspective than you see yourself.

[Priscilla] Absolutely. He sees us through the lens of the blood of His Son, Jesus. He doesn’t see us in our frailty, our humanity, our mistakes— that’s not what He sees, that’s what we see about ourselves. When God looks at us, He sees us through the lens of His Son. 

[Heidi] Yeah. Which brings me to another thing I wanted to ask you about. Jay and I have been raising seven children for 28 years. Our youngest is just eight, but the oldest is 28—and the difference that I see in the culture between the way I’m looking at raising my eight year old daughter and the way I raised my 28 year old daughter, is astonishing. What I’ve noticed more than anything else, is we’ve got a generation having an identity crisis. I have not seen it like this ever in my lifetime, and I’ve been walking with the Lord for a long time. It can be intimidating. We are trying to figure out how we address this idea of identity crisis in the culture. And you’ve really been doing that. You’re doing this in your book Radiant, and I’m assuming this is a big theme of the movie Overcomer. Tell me a little bit about how you’re tackling the issue of identity and the crisis we’re facing in the culture right now. 

[Priscilla] Absolutely. That’s the theme of the entire movie. The whole point of it is to say that your identity cannot be wrapped up in temporal things. So if it’s in success, well success can be looming in your life in one decade and then be gone in the next decade. If your significance was tied to that, or money, or the applause, or appreciation of people, or if you’re all wrapped up in that—and it’s nothing wrong with any of those things—but if your significance is tied to them, that means that when somebody takes them away or when they disappear, your health, when it disappears that means you are going to be devastated. Often, the only way we realize that our significance is illegitimately tied to things is when it’s taken away. Because you can tell. If you’re only disappointed, that’s one thing. But if you’re devastated and you feel like life is over because that thing, that relationship doesn’t exist anymore— that means that your significance was too tightly wound up in that thing. 

You’ve got to go back and tie your significance to who God says you are. Think about the way that would change your whole life. If you really believe that you are chosen and accepted, let’s say you really believe that…that means that throughout my day when I’m going to make a decision as to how to respond to somebody, whether or not I’m going to tweet that, whether or not I’m going to accept that invitation or not. If I believe I’m accepted, then that means I’m not going to make decisions based out of insecurity… that I want you to accept me so I’m going to say yes to something I don’t really what to do… or I’m going to tweet something that actually reeks within security, or I’m going to engage in something that actually is a lesser version of what what I’m really worth. So when we get people really believing what God says about them, it literally changes the choices that you’re making on a daily basis, which in essence ultimately changes the course of your life.

[Heidi] Yeah. And for the person who’s listening to this right now, and they’re thinking—you know what, I don’t even know who I am in Christ anymore because I’ve been defined by how many followers I have on Instagram, or how many people appreciate the job that I’ve taken at the church all these many years, or whatever it is…it can be anything…and they’re struggling to find identity. Can you help point that person back to where do we begin to find our identity? Not In ourselves, but in the one who made us.

[Priscilla] Yes. In the film, Olivia Brooks, who is my character, looks at a young woman and says— I want you to do me a favor. I want you to turn to the New Testament, Ephesians one and two. I want you to just read it, write down everything it says about who you are. That is where I would begin. I would tell someone to just read through. You don’t have to read both chapters in one day if you don’t want. They’re not particularly long, but you can take over the course of a week. Just take the first two chapters of Ephesians and make a list of what it says about you as an adopted daughter or son in the Kingdom of God. Then rehearse those things. Post them on your bathroom mirror, or put them on your nightstand, or in your car where you’ll see them regularly—and then remind yourself continuously about what it says about you. It’ll start to renew your mind. 

Even in the movie, there’s one scene where she’s reading through her list one day and she realizes it says: I am forgiven. And that little thing just keeps messing with her. It keeps bothering her, and as she meditates on it, she realizes— well, if I’m forgiven, then what business do I have harboring resentment and bitterness against a very important person in her life that really had legitimately offended her. She thought: man, I need to go forgive them right away. So it literally changed her choices. It changed the path she walked down when she recognized the state of being that she was in as a daughter of God.

[Heidi] Hmm. It’s such a powerful truth that this generation needs so desperately to grasp because we are looking for our identity. We’re looking for identity and all the wrong places. One of the things I loved about the book is you frequently do something in the book over and over: read this, say this, and believe this. I printed out one that I thought— man, this is great! I’m gonna take my little black and white copy and stick it on my bathroom mirror. You started in Colossians 3:9-10  you have put off the old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its Creator. Then you say this: my struggles do not define me just because I’ve done something or doesn’t mean that’s who I am. My identity is rooted in my new nature in Christ. 

When you you’re talking to, especially to young girls who their identity is being assaulted at every turn right now— even the idea that God created us male and female is under attack in the culture..

[Priscilla]  Oh, all of it. Totally. 

[Heidi] When you see a young person struggling with this, where do you…. I mean, we’re going to send them back to the Word… I love that you’re saying— hey, my struggles don’t define me. This the scientist you said— oh no, male and female. No, I run back to the Word of God. God said, I made you in my image. We’re image bearers. How does the fact that that we are image bearers, once we get that deep down, how can that impact the way we live our lives? 

[Priscilla] Well, what it means is that every part of you was designed to literally bear His image. It’s like a mirror. A mirror is not designed to be impressed with itself. It’s designed to reflect an image. So what that means is: when I see myself now, with all of my uniquenesses, that means that He intentionally gave me those because there is some unique way He’s going to be reflected to the world if I’ll just relax and be myself. That means my hair texture is supposed to be my hair texture, that my skin color is supposed to be my skin color. My nose is supposed to be the size it is. All the stuff we wish we could change about our bodies—even the weaknesses in my personality, even those — that means that they’re not liabilities. It means God meant for me to be wired this way. If I dull my uniqueness, if I try to kind of melt into sameness with everybody around me, then the world is gonna miss out on the reflection of God that was intended to be seen through the uniqueness of me. His creative genius intended Priscilla to be this way and for you to be the way you are. As we surrender the fullness of our uniqueness to Him, we become a brilliant reflection of His light and love to the world.

[Heidi] Wow. And that is the message that we need to be shouting from the rooftops right now. It’s a powerful truth to realize that really, our identity is found in Christ. He tells us that He loves us just the way we are. We’re always telling our kids— listen, God made you special and He loves you very much. It seems to me, in the culture, we’re working really hard to try to undo what God said— He made us just the way we are. I love this. Can you give listeners a little bit of taste for what the movie Overcomer is all about? 

[Priscilla] Absolutely. It is about identity and it wraps itself around the story of a young woman and also a coach at a high school. The two of them and then one other person, their stories become very much intertwined as they all struggle in different ways to discover their significance and value— and to be reminded that it cannot be rooted in things that are stripped away. It’s an emotional story. It’s a gripping story. It’s got lots of twists and turns. I really think that folks are going to enjoy it when they see it in the theaters the weekend of August 23rd.

[Heidi] So that’s today. So this is opening in theaters today all over the country. If a mom is sitting here listening to this right now and she’s wondering— should I take my 13 year old too?

[Priscilla] Oh yes you should, absolutely. It is for the whole family. I really mean that because you literally have the entire spectrum of people in demographics in this film. You’ve got teenagers, you’ve got younger brothers and sisters, you’ve got husbands, wives. I even appreciate the diversity in the film that we see ourselves represented in the film, even across the spectrum of racial unity. I appreciate that aspect as well. So I think anyone coming from any vantage point or any perspective, we’ll be able to identify and connect on some level with some portion of this film.

[Heidi] And would you say that once we can, once we start to realize…. because it’s not just teenagers that struggle with identity, right? I mean, a mom can struggle with our identity, our identity can be wrapped up in motherhood. And then your teenager says— I hate your sweater and you’re a terrible mother. All of a sudden— we don’t know who we are anymore. So this is an issue that really affects everybody.

[Priscilla] It sure does. And you see the adults in the film struggling with it as well.

[Heidi] I love it. You also have a companion book, which is kind of what I’ve been reading out of a little bit this morning. Tell us a little bit about Radiant, why you wrote it…. and how in the world, Priscilla, how in the world are you writing a book and doing a movie and raising kids at the same time? Because whatever vitamin you’re taking, girl, I want it. 

[Priscilla] No, no. Let’s be clear. We filmed this movie a year ago. That’s how long it takes for a movie to get to the theaters. So last year this time we were filming and I only took about two or three weeks to fill my part. They film through the duration of the summer. Then I spent this year, from the fall until about May or June or so, writing this book. So I get the privilege to do that from my home. So I’m with my kids throughout the day. I just write when they’re away at school and doing their activities and here with them, but it was a privilege to write this book because what it does is it gives a woman an opportunity to have the message in her hand so that if she wants to, after a two hour movie, do business with this. She’s grappling with it, trying to figure it out and maybe trying to discover maybe she doesn’t even own a Bible. She needs something to help her to discover and grapple with the nuances of the struggles of her identity. This book and the accompanying Bible Study and resources that the Kendrick brothers have made sure are tied to this film—it’s just a great way for us to steward the message into people’s lives and homes and hearts.

[Heidi] I love it. That really is the message—to help parents and teenagers and whatever stage you are in your life, to get off the bench and onto the battlefield… to realize that you are who God says you are. 

[Priscilla] Absolutely.

[Heidi] You’re not defined by anybody else. You’re defined by the Lord. Priscilla Shirer, you are a treasure. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Where can people find you if they want to find more information about the movie and the book, where’s the best place to send them?

[Priscilla] Sure. Well we’re our ministry is Going Beyond Ministries so you can always find me GoingBeyond.com or @PriscillaShirer on social media platforms. 

[Heidi] Awesome, and for those of you who want more information about where to go to find the movie, I’ll be linking to all things Priscilla Shirer and the show notes today. Priscilla Shirer, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show with me today. I really appreciate it. 

[Priscilla] Thank you. Have a great day. 

[Heidi] Thanks, you too. All right you guys. For more information, find them at the show notes. Don’t forget, I will be in Lee’s Summit, Missouri this weekend for the Heidi St. John Conference. Thanks so much for tuning in, everybody. Have a great weekend and I’ll see you back here on Monday. 

Write to Heidi:
Heidi St. John
c/o Firmly Planted Family
11100 NE 34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682

Support this ministry by donating through E-giving. You can also send donations to: 1100 NE34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682

 

Submit your questions to MailBox Monday: podcast@thebusymom.com

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Yvette Hampton is the producer and host of the upcoming documentary, Schoolhouse Rocked: The Homeschool Revolution, being directed by her husband, Garritt Hampton. She is also host of the Schoolhouse Rocked Podcast. As a mom who is concerned for the future of this generation and the future of our country, Yvette has a deep passion to see a culture shift by encouraging people through the truth of God’s Word. Her greatest joy in life is being a wife and mom!

In the fall of 2016, she and her family sold their home and almost all of their possessions, loaded up in an RV, and began traveling the country to film Schoolhouse Rocked. They have a passion for the homeschool community and are humbled and honored that the Lord has called them to tell the stories of the millions of families who have been impacted by the homeschool revolution.

To see the movie trailer and find out more visit schoolhouserocked.com. 

Connect with the Yvette Hampton: Schoolhouse Rocked | School House Rocked Movie Trailer | Facebook 

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Don’t Miss These!

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TRANSCRIPTION:

Hey everybody, this is Heidi St, John. Welcome to the Heidi St, John podcast. I’m so glad you’ve joined me at my little corner of the Internet. Today is Friday, August 16th and this is episode number 806. 

I want to thank you guys for listening to the show. I know that we had a great time a couple of weeks ago, partying it down for the 800th episode of the show, and this is possible because of you guys. So we wanted to thank you—and please leave a review. Keep talking about the show. We really appreciate it. 

Today, I’ve got a guest on the show. This is meet my friend Friday and my friend Yvette Hampton is back on the show with me today. Yvette and her husband, Garrett, are the producers of Schoolhouse Rocked and Ian are back to school series today we’re going to talk about a topic near and dear to my heart, which is homeschooling. Anyone can homeschool—anyone. 

Stick around, I think you’re going to be encouraged.

All right you guys. So you know I’ve got a couple things coming up. I wanted to let you know I will be in Lee’s Summit next Saturday, August 24th for their women’s conference. I’ll be bringing my own version of encouragement to you. And this year the topic is Miracle Worker: The Life Changing Power of Following Jesus. And that’s going to happen on the 24th of August. You can register for it right now and it’s a better price than it is at the door. Please come and bring a friend, bring your Bible and get ready to be encouraged. On the 29th, just a few days after that, I will be at Valley Baptist Church to kick off their women’s ministry fall session. Super excited about that! And you can find that at HeidiStJohn.com/events. It’s not too late to register it for Valley Baptist Church Women’s Ministry Summit Kickoff Event on the 29th that’s in Bakersfield, California. And then the next event I’ll be at after that is in Fredericksburg, Virginia. I’ll be bringing my conference there. This is a great time to register. 

These events include lunch and we do worship. I’m telling you, it’s gonna change your life because the Word of God is life changing. If you guys have not joined me yet at MomStrong International, I would encourage you to do that. We’ve got a whole bunch of stuff coming up. A brand new study launches every single month. Right now we are right in the middle of our August study, but we’re going to be launching a brand new series in September. It’s a great time to get your kids involved in writing God’s Word. We want to encourage you, as I’ve been saying for many years at the podcast, just a few minutes in the Bible, every day, can change your life. It’s the gospel that changes us. I hope you guys will join us at MomStrongInternational.com

I want to take a few minutes and introduce my guest that’s actually been on the show with me before this. I love having people on here who are changing the culture, who are out there and really making a difference for The Kingdom. Yvette and her husband Garrett are doing that. They’ve been married for 25 years and they’ve got a couple of kids. They’ve spent some time with me at my little neck of the woods at the Homeschool Resource Center this summer in Vancouver. We are just thrilled by what God is doing. So I asked her if she can come on the show with me today and we’re going to talk about homeschooling. Yvette, welcome back. 

[Yvette] Thank you. Thank you. 

[Heidi] I’m glad that you’re here. How are you guys doing? 

[Yvette] We’re doing great. 

[Heidi] Yeah, you’re just hanging and raging  and doing all the things that you do, getting ready for homeschooling. Producing a movie. You know, the little things.

[Yvette] Yes we are. You know, little things. 

[Heidi] I love it. We have a lot of new listeners of the podcast since you were here last. By way of introduction, you guys have quite an interesting story to tell. You sold your home… what, in 2016? 

[Yvette] Yes. 

[Heidi] And then you traveled out to the east coast. 

[Yvette] Yes. 

[Heidi] And then you sold your trailer, and then you travel out to the west coast to see me. 

[Yvette] Interesting is right. 

[Heidi] Interesting is right. So what’s going on? Why, would you do that? 

[Yvette] Yeah, well, in 2016 we felt like the Lord had put it on our hearts to film this documentary on homeschooling and at the same time to sell our house and most of our possessions, load up in an RV and travel across the country  to film this documentary on homeschooling. So we did and we’ve been on the road for a few years now and it’s been a really exciting thing just to see how God’s hand has moved and miraculous ways.

 

[Heidi] The name of the documentary is Schoolhouse Rocked. You guys are talking about a revolution that’s happening around the country, particularly where education is concerned. People talk to me all the time—of course I’m out on the road speaking to homeschoolers, but also to people who are thinking about homeschooling: I see what’s happening in the schools, but I’m not really sure if I can do it at home. Are you seeing the sort of the same thing happening? People are just pulling their kids out of school? 

[Yvette] Yes, yes. All over the place. We have been now, I think somewhere around 34 states, and we have met homeschool families along the way in most of those states. And, across the board, it’s pretty much the same thing: Moms do not feel like they are capable or equipped to homeschool their kids. But it’s been the most exciting thing because we get to talk to moms like yourself who have been there and who have graduated kids, and who do come alongside of us moms and say— you can do this. If God’s calling you to it, He’s going to equip you with everything you need to be able to accomplish it. 

[Heidi] And that is the message. That if the Lord of Heaven’s armies is asking you to do this, then He’s already equipped you for the job. I tell people— man, if the Lord can ask Heidi St. John to homeschool, who cannot keep houseplants alive, and give her seven kids— than anyone can do it. Anyone can do it. I think sometimes we overthink it. Do you think? 

[Yvette] I think so, yes. Well, because it seems so scary because you look at what the school system is like on the outside and we feel like we need to bring that into our home to replicate it. It’s impossible to do that. When we can’t replicate that, we feel like we’re failing somehow. Yeah. Which is not the case of course. 

[Heidi] No. And I think the revolution that you guys are highlighting in Schoolhouse Rocked is: this is the revolutionary idea. The schools are actually doing it wrong. When parents can come home and actually foster a love of learning in their kids, amazing things happen. Kids are natural born learners. They come into the world ready to learn. We’ve said through No Child Left Behind, and the ridiculous thing known as Common Core—that our kids are all the same. So, what works for my kid is gonna work for your kid. You guys have two kids. Are they the same? 

[Yvette] Not at all. No. No. 

[Heidi] That’s a shocking fact. You never talked to parents who say— oh, my kid is exactly like this. All of our kids are exactly the same. And so let me get this cookie cutter curriculum and send them to the cookie cutter school and they’re going to come out and do a cookie cutter job. No, they’re individuals. 

[Yvette] Yes and you try to fit them all into the same box and it’s impossible to do that. They end up either being left behind or being bored out of their minds. It’s detrimental to kids. You talk about it being a revolution and the interesting thing is that it is a revolution today—but it’s only been in the last 160 years or so…

[Heidi] That’s right. 

[Yvette] …that we’ve put our children into these institutions called school. For years and years, parents homeschooled their kids, they taught their kids at home. 

[Heidi] And no one made fun of them for it. 

[Yvette] They were not socially awkward. 

[Heidi] I love my friend Sam Sorbo, and we were talking about this not too long ago and she was saying I’ve heard her say this many times, I think is just so powerful— when did we start to buy the lie that the minute your kid turns five, the school district comes in and says: oh, thank you, good job, we can take it from here. Thank you for teaching them to brush their teeth, and thank you for getting him potty trained. And in some cases we don’t even wait that long before we take them to the school—and then the school is supposed to do what we can’t do. The net result of that has been that it’s made parents feel a sort of inept. We just feel like we can’t do it and we’ve got to give them to somebody else. 

[Yvette] Right, right, right. And the thing is—it’s not even about the academics. We talked a lot about this and we’ve talked a lot about this in the movie. Homeschooling is important, academics are important because that’s what points our children towards Christ. But parenting is not about academics. It’s about discipling and training the hearts of our children. Homeschooling allows you to do that because when you’re putting them in a classroom with someone else to train them for 35 or 40 hours a week, you’re handing them off to someone else and expecting that person to do all of the training and discipling.

And not that parents whose kids are in school don’t have the opportunity to do that as well, it’s just you miss so much of the opportunity. 

[Heidi] Well, it’s less of an opportunity. 

[Yvette] Yes, for sure. 

[Heidi] It’s less of an opportunity because you, your kids are being discipled. And really that’s what education is— it’s discipleship. So whenever we talk about education, I like to frame it that way. When we have our kids in someone else’s care for eight hours every day, those eight hours. those children are being discipled by somebody else. And if that’s the case, then we better know what the worldview is of that teacher, what the worldview is of those that are around them. Because otherwise we’re just doing cleanup at the end of the day. 

[Yvette] And even if their worldview is biblical, their hand has been forced to teach them something that’s not. And I feel like it’s so much more work to have to undo that as a Christian parent. So why not just keep them home? And get to spend that time together, and the relationship that comes with homeschooling. I mean, there are just so many amazing benefits to having your children at home. 

[Heidi] When we talked to homeschoolers and people who are thinking about homeschooling, one of the first questions that always comes—I always hear this, it never fails and it’s not even the socialization question anymore because the socialization question to me is a moot point. The biggest question I still get from a mom is: she is afraid she’s going to feel overwhelmed. She’ll say— my kids don’t respond to me that way. I’m not their teacher. They need to go to a teacher to respect that teacher is giving them an assignment and they’re going to get it done. My kids don’t have that kind of respect for me. What do you say to that mom? 

[Yvette] Yeah. I’ve actually thought a lot about this because I have had that as well, where parents have said—my kids won’t listen to me, I can’t. My kids will drive me crazy if I have them home all day. And my answer to that is— well, that’s because you’re not the one training them. And if your kids are home with you, then you get to be the one to disciple and train their hearts and you will enjoy them. I love spending time with my kids. It’s not that they don’t drive me crazy sometimes or that I don’t have my days where I just need to get away from the house— but that’s very few and far between.

[Heidi] Get away from the country.

[Yvette] Get away from the country, which is our house. But it’s because my husband and I are there with them day after day and we are the ones who get to train and disciple them. So we train them the way that we want to train them. When you hand them off to someone else for training and discipleship, they’re going to be trained the way that person wants them to be.

[Heidi] And you can’t help it. I’ve heard people say— well, they’re not doing it intentionally. You’re right! Because it comes out of you, it’s your worldview. The Bible teaches us in Luke 6:40 that when a student is fully trained, he’ll be like teacher. I don’t know about you, but I’m thinking for goodness sake, when your kids are going away to colleges, universities….. I had a Dr. Pesta on a couple of weeks ago and he is incredible. He’s a very brilliant thinker and very ahead of the times in terms of what’s happening on college campuses and he has been for some time. But he’s saying parents can actually inoculate their kids against the junk that’s happening in the colleges and universities right now, which is rampant by just giving them a good foundation when they are in elementary school and high school. So then we’re teaching them to become critical thinkers. We’re teaching them to defend their faith. The Christian faith is actually defensible and they can make a defense. But when we’ve given them to somebody else for eight, 10 hours a day, for 12 years in a row and then they come out as somebody that we didn’t want them to be— we shouldn’t be surprised. 

[Yvette] Right. That’s right. One of our favorite interviews besides yours of course..

[Heidi] Riiiight, that’s right. I’ll give you 20 bucks later.

[Yvette] …is Israel Wayne. He just reiterates— no one knows your child as well as you do. No one loves them like you do. There are excellent administrators and teachers in both private and public school…

[Heidi] Yeah. 

[Yvette] Who genuinely love the kids, but they are incapable of loving each child the way they need to individually be loved as individuals. They just can’t, I mean they just don’t have the ability to do that because they’ve got 30 some odd kids in a classroom. So they can’t give each child the attention. And the love that they need. 

[Heidi] Yeah, that’s right. And I think this is such a fascinating point about Christ and His coming to the earth. He came for individuals, He sees us as individuals and He wants us to reconcile to Himself as individuals. What we’ve done in the United States in education is we see kids as a collective. So this is the collective I was telling my husband the other day, it kind of reminds me of Star Trek and I’m not really a Trekkie but I was a kid, and I remember the board to simulation and resistance is futile and all that stuff. And I keep thinking— this is the kind of education really in the United States right now, and we’ve taken all the joy and all the individualism out of it. We’re not teaching the humanities anymore. We’re not teaching a science. We’re not teaching our kids the trades anymore. 

Part of why we started the Homeschool Resource Center was to say— Hey, we’re going to bring back music and art. We’re going to teach kids how to change the oil in their car, and woodshop, and work with their hands. It’s not really happening [in schools] because the idea of education in the United States has changed so dramatically in the last 40 years that it’s almost unrecognizable. 

[Yvette] Well, it’s all about the agenda that they have. It’s not about building character. Even when we were kids in public school, they used to do characters building. 

[Heidi] Yep. 

[Yvette] And they’ve done away with that. Now it’s all about tolerance and it’s about social engineering. 

[Heidi] Yeah.

[Yvette] It’s really scary. We have such an opportunity with having our kids home to be able to develop their character and see what their weaknesses are, see what their strengths are. How did God make them?

[Heidi] And answer their questions.

[Yvette] And answer their questions in a way that’s biblical. 

[Heidi] Yeah. Yeah. I think so often, and this happens, sadly, I’m seeing it more and more as I travel for a living. Jay and I have opportunities every single weekend almost to interact with parents. And so many of these parents are pulling their kids out of public school and I meet them at a conference with thousands of other people. And the first thing they’ll do is come up and start crying and say— Hey, my kid was introduced to transgenderism in the third grade and by fifth he thought he should be a girl that he was a boy born in the wrong body. And the first thing I will do is take them back to the truth of God’s Word because Satan is a liar. He’s been deceiving us since he deceived Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. And his tactics have not changed. They’re the same. He tricks us through deception, through the lust of the eyes, through the darkness in our own hearts. And he plays on our weaknesses. And that’s what’s happening in the culture right now. 

Parents can actually stand up against it by simply pulling their kids out of the system and saying— no, these kids do not belong to the school system or to the state. They belonged to me. God said these are your children, you need to disciple them. When you guys started out thinking out— okay, we’re gonna… I know it didn’t start out on the big full scale thing that it is right now because you’re actually here in Vancouver finishing up for the movie.

[Yvette] Yes.

[Heidi] Right and we’ll talk about that in a second. But you have a vision to encourage homeschooling families. As you think about it in the context of Schoolhouse Rocked, what the movie might do when it gets into theaters and exposes people who may not have been exposed before to the idea that parents are the primary educators of their kids—what is it that you’re ultimately hoping to accomplish? 

[Yvette] Well, there are several things with the movie. For years and years we had said that we would never ever homeschool.

[Heidi] Accidental homeschoolers unite. 

[Yvette]That’s right. We had been married about 11 years, almost 11 years before our first daughter was born. And so we had a lot of time to talk about that and we said we would never do that to ourselves. We’d never do that to our kids. But the Lord changed our hearts. We went to a homeschool convention and God just said— this is what you’re going to do. One weekend alone at that convention, the scales fell from our eyes and we said— oh, homeschooling, it’s for normal people. I don’t know who I thought it was for, but we didn’t think it was for us. You said anyone can do it. Both Garrett and I hated school growing up. And when I say hate, I mean like despised it. I only went for the social aspect of it and he barely went. I really didn’t like it. 

[Heidi] I don’t think you’re alone in that.

[Yvette] So I thought, well, why would I want to do that to my kids? Of course now I look back and think—why would I want to put that in that same environment that I hated myself so much, and Garrett as well? 

With the movie, we want to really debunk all the misconceptions and negative stereotypes that people have of homeschooling. We want them to see what we saw going into that first convention of—first of all, we can do this. Like we said at the beginning of the podcast— if God’s calling you to this, you can do it. Anything that God calls you to, He’s going to equip you to be able to do.

[Heidi] Straight out out of His Word.

[Yvette] Yes. And so we want to encourage parents to be able to do it. Just, you can do it. And it does not look like school in a school house. 

[Heidi] It doesn’t need to. Thank goodness.

[Yvette] It doesn’t need to. No, it shouldn’t, as a matter of fact. It’s set up that way for a reason. So we want to just do away with all the misconceptions, negative stereotypes. We also want to give people a tool to really understand what homeschooling is about. So many people have parents or grandparents or aunts and uncles or neighbors who are saying— why would you homeschool? This is a terrible idea. And it’s because again, they just don’t understand what homeschooling is. 

We want to be able to provide a tool for those people to say— just watch this movie and you’ll understand why we want to homeschool. It’s to call parents to account of being able to bring your kids home, and love them, and train them, and build that relationship with them. You can have a great relationship with your kids. You can have a really great relationship with your kids when you’re with them. 

[Heidi] Yeah, it absolutely matters. I think what you’re doing is you’re equipping parents who maybe felt like they couldn’t make a good defense for why in their gut they know something’s wrong. I talk to parents all the time. They write to me at the podcast. There are a lot of people that listen to this that don’t homeschool their kids. And homeschooling is not the gospel. I don’t want to give this misconception that if you homeschool your kids— then everything’s going to be great, the laundry will fold itself, your kids are going to walk with the Lord, your marriage will be perfect. No, because we’re sinful people that live in a sinful world.

[Yvette] That’s right.

[Heidi] I do think there’s something so precious about recognizing that something is wrong and then saying to the Lord— Father, what can I do? What can I do? And really, homeschooling is a very viable, very doable solution. And you don’t have to have a lot of money to do it. People think— oh, my husband needs to have this fantastic job. A lot of us that homeschool—you and I are great examples—are not making a lot of money. They are single income homes, and these parents are making tremendous sacrifices. 

[Yvette] Yes. 

[Heidi] So we’re here to say the sacrifice is worth it. 

[Yvette] It is absolutely worth it. There’s nothing else that I’d rather be doing with my kids right now. And you know, we like you, we work from home as we have our family business, I guess you would call it—we’re making this documentary, but we do it as a family and our girls get to be a part of it and they get to help us with it. In the process of that, they have seen the hand of God move in ways that they would never have seen Him work. It’s been incredible for them to be part of that with us because we’re a team. We’re the Hampton team. It’s what we do.

[Heidi] I love it. I love it and you guys have great girls. I mean, I’ve been privileged to have them in my home and..

[Yvette] Thank you. 

[Heidi] You guys have a fantastic thing going on. 

[Yvette] Well, you too.

[Heidi] You are in Vancouver. 

[Yvette] Yes. 

[Heidi] What in the world would bring you all the way from the east coast out here to God’s country? 

[Yvette] The Lord. Honestly I can just say God has brought us out after much prayer. We interviewed you for the movie back about a year and a half ago. 

[Heidi] Yea, in Nashville. 

[Yvette] We were so struck by your interview and of course I listened to your podcast and read your books. So as we prayed through how the Lord would direct the narrative of the movie, He just made it clear that it was to be with Heidi St. John.

[Heidi] I’m thrilled because it’s fun to have you out here. 

[Yvette] It’s fun to be here.

[Heidi] And for you to see what’s going on at the Homeschool Resource Center.

[Yvette] It’s incredible.

[Heidi] And get a record out here in my studio rather than being on the phone, which is fantastic. 

[Yvette] Yes, it’s so much fun. So much fun. We’re here finishing up filming and it’s exciting. This has been through months and months of prayer and God has just miraculously provided for us to be here. So we just took a 10 day drive across the country to get here. 

[Heidi] It really is remarkable what the Lord is asking to do. You guys have a ways to go and you still need support to get this movie finished and to get all of the finishing touches post-production and all that. We were talking about this at dinner. Garrett was talking about how you guys need money for post-production. And I’m like— can you talk to the idiot (that’s me) who doesn’t know what that means? 

[Yvette] Sure.

[Heidi] Just for the listeners who are going—that’s such a cool idea. How can I help? Tell us what you need and how people can help. 

[Yvette] Sure. So once we’re done filming here, we move into post production like you said, and that is bringing in all of the other people who we need to help us finish it. Doing the music for the movie, doing the color for the movie, marketing the movie—because of course we can make the greatest movie in all the land that if nobody knows about it right then it doesn’t do anyone any good.

[Heidi] Yeah. 

[Yvette] So marketing and then we’re reaching for getting it actually into theaters. We’ve already been in contact with Fathom Events. They’re excited about it because homeschoolers are one of their biggest audiences. So they’re super excited about it. Of course that all takes support and money and God has provided for us along the way. I mean it’s been day to day. It’s been amazing too. 

[Heidi] Awesome. 

[Yvette] If people go to our website, there’s a big button right on the front page that says Support Schoolhouse Rocked, you can’t miss it.  People can support us that way. Some people support us with $10 at a time or some people do monthly support, others are able to give $5,000. I mean it just depends.

[Heidi] And if you’re listening and you can give 50,000 they’ll take it. 

[Yvette] Yes. It’s all God’s money anyway. 

[Heidi] That’s exactly right. Well, I am really excited to see what God does with your family and with Schoolhouse Rocked. And I just wanted to say thanks for coming on the show. 

[Yvette] Thank you for having us and our family is enjoying so much. Our girls are out there running around the resource center right now. It is amazing here. I cannot believe what God has done here. 

[Heidi] Yeah, it’s a pretty amazing thing and our story is a lot like yours. We’re learning as we go along that the Lord is faithful.

[Yvette] Walking by faith. 

[Heidi] He wants us to walk by faith. That’s how He does it in homeschooling is also a walk by faith and blessing it. 

[Yvette] He is. This morning I was reading Matthew 6:33 — seek first the Kingdom of God. He provides everything for us. Seek Him first. And that’s with homeschooling, with marriage, with parenting, with anything— seek Him first and He will provide everything else that you need. There’s no need to worry about what’s going to happen if you’re gonna have the right curriculum, if you’re going to have the time, if you’re gonna have the resources—God’s gonna provide it.

[Heidi] The patience!

[Yvette] Yes, that’s right. 

[Heidi] Yeah. Because you’re not, but God will give it to you. 

[Yvette] That’s right. Seek first The Kingdom.

[Heidi] Thank you so much. It’s been a joy to have you here. 

[Yvette] Thank you so much. 

[Heidi] For more information about Schoolhouse Rocked and the ministry that Garrett and Yvette Hampton are hoping to bring to the big screen, please go to the show notes today. I really hope you guys will consider supporting the movie. I can see the Lord is going to use it in a really big way.

For those of you who want more information about MomStrong, we are getting ready to launch a brand new study in September. It is a great time to jump on board and get into the habit of writing out the Word of God. 

One more thing before I go today, I want to let you guys know that I’m doing something really special on Monday the 19th. If you know anybody who’s considering homeschooling or is within the first three or four years of homeschooling and could just use a refresher course—we’re going to talk about learning styles, scheduling—we are going to talk about homeschooling. So I’m doing homeschooling for rookies at 11am PST on Monday the 19th. You can find more information about how to register for that in the show notes today. 

So before we go today we can’t end without announcing the winners of our giveaway from the 800th podcast celebration. So thanks to everybody who entered. If you hear your name, you can expect we’re going to be mailing out a package to you very soon. So Instagram winner was Kendra M. from Walnut Grove, North Carolina. The iTunes package winner is Melissa H. from Utah, and the MomStrong International winner is Siobhan B. We’re going to be mailing your packages out to you early next week. Thanks for listening, everybody. Congratulations, and I’ll see you back here on Monday!

Write to Heidi:
Heidi St. John
c/o Firmly Planted Family
11100 NE 34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682

Support this ministry by donating through E-giving. You can also send donations to: 1100 NE34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682

Submit your questions to MailBox Monday: podcast@thebusymom.com

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Leslie Nunnery is the co-founder of Teach Them Diligently Convention along with her husband David. She is the homeschool mother of four children who range in age from 12-19. God has given her a strong burden to minister to Christian families to help support, encourage and equip them to disciple their children, protect their marriages, and serve God in the ways He has planned for them. She is an advocate of home education with a strong focus on discipleship which is evidenced in her writings and the events her family produces. She is also heavily involved in mission endeavors through Worldwide Tentmakers, for which her husband serves as president and Teach Them Diligently supports.

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TRANSCRIPTION:

Hey everybody, this is Heidi St John. Welcome to the podcast. This is Meet My Friend Friday, and I will be having a repeat friend on the show with me today. Leslie Nunnery is here. She and her husband are the founders of the Teach Them Diligently Conference and she’s got a lot of encouragement for you. We are going to be talking a lot about relationships and mentoring and what that looks like in the culture today. 

Stick around, I think you’re going to be encouraged

So thanks everybody for tuning in today. As always, I want to remind you a little bit about what’s coming up at my neck of the woods so that if you’re in the area you can come out and say hello. Also want to tell you we are just starting a brand new study at MomStrong International. We’re continuing our study in the fruit of the spirit and this month we’re going to do a little bit of a combined focus. I think you’re really going to be encouraged. If you’re not studying the Word of God with us, I want to just encourage you to do that. We’ve got almost 13,000 members now at MomStrong International—and what we’re doing is trying to teach you how to teach your children, and to lead and mentor other women, which is why I’m so excited that Leslie is here with me today.

So without further ado, I just want to let you guys know that here at the podcast, one of the things I want to do is introduce you to voices in the culture who are pointing other men and women back to the truth of God’s Word, and our need to follow Jesus. And Leslie is a wonderful example of that. She and I have been friends for many years. I love what they’re doing. Leslie is the co-founder of the Teach Them Diligently Convention along with her husband David. She’s a homeschool mom of four kids and she recently has a graduate. Her kids range in age from 12 to 19, and the Lord has really given them a burden to minister to christian families and help support and encourage them. And so Leslie and I are going to be talking about what that looks like today. Leslie, my friend, welcome back to the show. 

[Leslie] Thank you so much. It’s awesome to be here. 

[Heidi] So you have just come off of the Teach Them Diligently extravaganza season. We’ve seen each other quite a bit around the country this last summer. For those listeners who are not familiar with Teach Them Diligently, can you talk a little bit for just a minute about the convention?—how it got started and how people can find out about it.

[Leslie] Sure. Teach Them Diligently is actually geared for homeschool families, although not exclusively homeschool families, but we seek to celebrate discipleship in homeschool families. We think that homeschooling is a great tool for discipleship, but homeschooling affects every area of your life. So we talk a lot about parenting, marriage, relationships, and how all of this works together—and really trying to equip families to point their children to Jesus and give them a foundation so that when they grow up, they’re going to in what they’ve learned and pass that on to the next generation. It’s our hope and prayer that God will use Teach Them Diligently to really strengthen His church through these families that were able to minister to.

[Heidi] You guys have done a fantastic job of really keeping the focus of Teach Them Diligently on discipleship. So you’re right, we do talk about homeschooling, but really you can homeschool your kids and miss it, right? We’ve seen that happen for many years. You and I have both been in the homeschool movement for a long time. And it is possible to bring your kids home from school and still miss the most important thing—which is to teach him how to be disciples.

[Leslie] Well, yeah. And it’s also possible to have your kids in a school and still disciple them. And that’s what’s so important— is that no matter where you are in life, no matter what you feel like God’s call is for your family right this minute, you can count on the fact that God has called you as a parent to teach them diligently. And so it is our goal to equip you no matter what— to see your role as mom and dad as elevated as God sees it, and to see your importance in passing that faith onto the next generation.

[Heidi] Yeah, it’s so important. You guys also run a membership site, right? What’s it called?

[Leslie] Teach Them Diligently 365. I’m pretty sure we feel about 582 days a year.

[Heidi] And over there you’ve just completed a series about rethinking relationships. And before you and I got on the show today, we were talking a little bit about the lack of relationship in the culture. And as you look around and you see motherhood from a different perspective, because your kids are beginning now to grow up and leave your home, and as you’re looking at the younger generation coming up— you and I have both observed the same thing, which is a real need for a mentorship and a real need for discipleship for the younger generation. Why are you so concerned about this next generation of mothers coming up?

[Leslie] I talk to so many moms both onsite, and then virtually throughout the year, who just feel lost. They feel ill equipped for what God has called them to do. I think that we’re seeing in this younger generation, and it’s so weird that I’m now old enough to talk about the younger generation— I can not think of myself that way….

[Heidi] I know!

[Leslie] I have to wrap my head around it…but we are seeing in these younger moms that had these precious younger children, a lot of them have an insecurity in what they’re doing. They don’t feel well equipped—whether they just didn’t see it modeled in their own family growing up or they just missed it somewhere along the way. As I’ve kind of backed up off of that, what’s really been of concern to me is I’m not seeing a whole lot of people stepping up, just physically, to fill those gaps.

So I talked to people who aren’t connected to older ladies in their church, and just trying to assess—what is driving that, where are we missing the boat? And I really have come to the conclusion that we’re missing the boat on both ends—older moms are not stepping up and I think that there’s a myriad of reasons why, ranging from our own insecurity, maybe a little bit of pride they should ask me, different things like that. And then the younger moms who are, are either unwilling to ask for help for whatever reason, or they’re asking the wrong people: they’re going on a the same plane. They’re going to people their own age to ask for help. Which there’s their conversations to have with people your own age. But to really get that deep insight and that mentorship, you’ve got to go beyond. 

I heard this when I was younger in counseling at a camp and it stuck with me so much—in order to lift you up, I have to be on higher ground. And you really need to find somebody who’s farther along in the journey that can pull you along, can tell you the good, the bad, and the ugly of what they’ve learned. Because a lot of times we learn by stubbing our toe, and we sure would like to see you not have to stub your toe the same way.

Right. Well, and there’s something to be said. I feel like the culture, as in by and large, rejects the wisdom and the advice of senior citizens. I think it sort of starts there and you and I are not in that place in our life. We’re not to that place in their life. I was talking to my mother-in-law about this a couple of weeks ago and she said she feels invisible. She said she’ll go places and she feels even at church she can feel invisible. Like here I’m 75 years old, I’ve gone through actually a whole lot of life. And because I don’t know the Internet very well, and because I’m not good at Facebook, and because blah, blah, blah, whatever it is, no one’s coming to me and they’re not asking.

And I started to think about that because I’m sort of the same way. I mean, we tend to look at our own generation. We’re so used to the internet. If you’ve got a problem, what do you do? You Google it, right? Although I would tell people, stop googling because Google is not your friend, or whatever. And it’s a whole another podcast. But really, we’re not looking to the older generation. And I think as a result, they’ve become sort of insecure and they’re not giving that wisdom anymore. They’re not offering it because they feel like it isn’t wanted. 

One of the things I love about what your heart is, is to see moms stop overthinking what it means to be a mentor and start looking at it more as relationship instead of— let me pass on my wisdom to you. How about we walk in relationship with each other. I kind of feel like because of the internet—I mean we can blame an awful lot of things on the internet, right? But the example of Paul who mentored Timothy. Because it was through Paul that Timothy became a Christian and then they became very good friends. Paul was older than Timothy, and he described their friendship in Philippians I think it’s chapter two, He described their friendship as being like that of a father and a son. He loved him. He called him his son who he loved and Paul noticed something in Timothy and invited him into and involved him in his work. Right from the beginning. They made decisions together. It’s amazing what God did through that relationship of Paul being older than Timothy. It wasn’t like this— here, let me help you. It was— here, I see something wonderful in you, let me bring you alongside me and let’s walk the scene together. Because Paul knew he was going to leave this earth before Timothy did.

[Leslie] Oh yeah. Well and to that overthinking point that you started with there, we look at how we parent our children and we want it to be natural. The teach them diligently verse which we go back to all the time in our ministry as you walk, as you talk— that makes sense to us with a parent child relationship because we’re doing life together. But I think that we really should look at our relationships with other ladies in the same way. I’ve found that some of the most natural, beneficial conversations have been sitting around the pool while their younger children are playing and my older kids are playing with them to watch them— and we can just talk to one another. It’s not a— sit at my feet, allow me to pontificate and tell you all of this great stuff.

It’s more just natural conversation and the questions that naturally arise we’re able to grow. And I learned from them. I always learned from the younger ladies that I’m talking to because I get insight into how they’re thinking. And with a lot of the people that I talked to that are younger than me, their zeal and they’re open mindedness to different ways of serving is a real challenge to me. And that’s another thing that I think as older moms are missing out on is just the freshness that this generation brains, and their willingness to jump into so many different things if they really see the mission behind it. So that natural conversant hanging out, those opportunities are so valuable. 

We were just in Israel, I think I had told you about that. We were in Israel as a family, back in May. And one of the things that I noticed that I had not noticed out of the context of being there, we were there with a few different Bible professors, who were kind of leading the tour. And those guys, my children were with me, and they would just walk alongside my kids from time to time and just point out— you know when Jesus said this? and they’re pointing at something specific— this is what he was really talking about. And really fleshing that out for them. And as I watched that, I thought, first of all, that’s how Jesus taught His disciples. They walked, they talked, he pointed at fig trees and different things along the road. And it was so very, very natural. But then I thought— how amazing that these guys are taking the time to pull myself children aside and walk with them. And that is what I so desperately long to see in our churches, in our families, just within this community of Christian women—walk alongside one another and talk and share and point out things that you’ve learned. And just let that natural conversation really grow the church.

[Heidi] Yeah. And we need to be looking to, hopefully…I mean the church has been stumbling in so many areas, you and I have talked about this hours on end. But the church is really struggling right now. They’re struggling with their identity, for one thing. And when you’re struggling with your identity, you can’t mentor other people until you know who you are in Christ, until you know exactly what you stand on. I think part of what we’re seeing happen with the younger generation of women is a failure of the church to get in there and say— hey, we’re gonna strengthen you as we ourselves are strengthened. But if we’re struggling, we don’t know who we are, we can’t. The church is grappling with basic issues right now. We’re grappling with things that we shouldn’t be grappling with. And I think falling through the cracks, it really is the younger generation. And you were talking a minute ago about seeking advice and giving counsel. 

I’m writing a book right now. And so I’ve been reading through 1st and 2nd Kings, and I love the Bible, but I really love the Old Testament in the sense that it’s history, right? So 1st and 2nd Kings, especially os like a record of history of God’s people that was given to us. And we see all these mistakes that we made. So exactly what you said before— that we will learn from it and not make the mistakes again. And you watch in 1 Kings 12 where Rehoboam makes a devastating decision right after he got council.

And I think what we’re learning there is not enough to get counsel if we consult the wrong people. We gotta be surrounding ourselves with women and men who love the Lord and who can encourage each other to grow in our relationships. And as you look at the young women around you, I love that your heart is just saying— hey, come over and let’s sit around the pool and let’s talk about life and let’s do life together. Because that’s so much of it, right? Telling the stories of God’s faithfulness in your life and when we struggled. Because you and I’ve been around enough to have struggled quite a bit and be able to look back and go—well that didn’t work. Tell me, like when these moms come to you and they open up about the struggles having either in marriage or in raising their children or their fear in the culture— whatever it is. Do you feel like also, it sounds like you do, that you’re growing, just like Paul and Timothy, you’re growing right along with them?

[Heidi] There is no question. Another is part of that series you alluded to earlier, I did a video on rethinking your rear view mirror. I think a lot of us that are older and have a bigger rear view mirror, we underestimate the value of that. And even as I am interacting with with these younger moms, the Lord will bring things to mind that He taught me that was often not fun to go through. It’s in those valleys that we get such a wealth of lessons and we realize just how faithful God really is. And when we think those situations and then have to put them back in service because somebody else now needs that, they need to hear how I made it through whatever it was— whether it be total lack of sleep because I had three babies, three and under, or whether it is working through a death of a child or something else that God has placed in your hand— God can use those. And all of a sudden when He puts those things into service again, they have a whole new meaning, you have a whole new appreciation for the goodness of God and His grace in allowing you to serve other people, even through that hurtful and hard experience. And He really will grow us older moms so much when we just open our hands and allow Him to use what He’s put in them.

[Heidi] Yeah. It’s so good. And to be honest, I think oftentimes mothers get to the end of homeschooling their kids or whatever… and if you’re Heidi St. John, you’ve been homeschooling since the dawn of time. I told Jay the other day, I think I’m 187 years old in homeschooling years. And you get to the end of it and part of us just wants to be done. We want to be done. We want to stay home, we want to start knitting or whatever it is that we do because we’re tired. But part of getting off the bench, which is what we talk about all the time here at the podcast, is to say— you’re not actually done until the Lord takes you home. Until the Lord says you’re off the field, you don’t bench yourself. So as long as I have breath, as long as my body is healthy and I can— actually, even when it’s not for goodness sake, look at Joni Eareckson Tada. Perfect example of somebody. She could have taken what happened to her and just use that as an excuse to get off the field. But instead she’s allowing God to use it. And so for the women, I think there’s a challenge here for young moms is to say— hey, don’t be afraid to walk up to a mom who’s been there and done that and say: Hey, can we get together for coffee? And then for older moms who are listening—invest in the lives of these younger women, they absolutely need it.

[Leslie] Absolutely. 

[Heidi] And we also need it. I think we can underestimate what you were saying—we also need it. And all through the Bible you see generations working together. I think one of the failures of the church church is we segregated everybody. So we’ve got the young moms meeting over here, the widows and the older moms have their Bible study on Tuesday morning when there’s no way that a younger moms could ever attend. And so maybe we can look at opportunities to see that culture inside the body of Christ change.

[Leslie] Yes, absolutely. It takes both sides being willing to open themselves up. For you younger moms, I can’t imagine a situation where if you walked up to an older mom and said— hey, I’d love to have coffee with you— that she would be offended by that. I mean honestly, she may not have thought of it, but I don’t think that she’s going to be offended. And for you older moms, it’s the same way. I think that we have put up these walls and some of it is just the insulation that we put around ourselves. Some of it, there may be a little bit of pride of not wanting to expose ourselves and our past or our questions. We all have to look like we have it all together. And when you’re talking to somebody on that level, it’s very apparent that neither old nor young have it all together.

God, is working in both of us. But we have to be willing to do that. We have to step outside of our comfort zone. God’s Word tells us in Titus 2 that the older women are supposed to be investing in the younger women. We’re even supposed to teach the younger women how to love their children. We have a privilege as moms to love our children in such a way that you have to be taught how to do it. That’s pretty incredible to me. I think that that just really shows how elevated our role as moms really is. That it takes somebody really walking alongside and showing you how to love your child on that level.

[Heidi] Yeah, it’s so good. And even when you’re tired, even when you think—I just don’t have anything else to give. The Lord is saying— Hey, walk with me and I’m going to help you. For the mom who’s tired and just thinks— man, I just don’t know if I have anything left to give. Or maybe you feel like you’re a failure. Or maybe your child walked away from the Lord, and so you’re the mother of a prodigal now— and you’re looking at some of these younger moms saying, I don’t have anything, I don’t have anything to offer. It’s not true because God does His best work in the deep. The person who’s most likely to be able to minister to the heart of a mom whose child is making bad decisions is not the mom who’s never experienced that, it’s the mom who’s walked through it and can say it’s all right, God’s never gonna leave you.

[Leslie] Yup. Amen.

[Heidi] So important. Leslie, you have an incredible ministry in a heart for moms. Where can moms find you guys online. 

[Leslie] Well, you can find us at TeachThemDiligently.net. We have a blog, we have a membership site there. But I would really encourage those that just want to dive deep— there’s an email series that I wrote that’s free that just walks you through 35 days of praying for your children or praying for your spouse. There’s two different ways that you can enter it. It just looks at how when you pray scripture for these roles that you’re playing, how God will work in your heart, and we’ll give you insight into the ones that you love and we’ll really improve your relationships within your family. So I would encourage people to go check that out. It’s just teach them TeachThemDiligently.net/pray and you can choose either of those series, but that also walks you through kind of a mentoring type exercise. Because I just talk like we’re sitting across the table at what God taught me through praying that way for 20 some odd years.

[Heidi] I love it. I love it. I love it. So for those of you want more information, you just heard Leslie say it. I’m going to link back to it in the show notes today.I know you guys are going to be blessed. Leslie, I love you. I love your heart. Thank you so much for coming on the show and, and blessing my listeners today.

[Leslie] Oh, you’re welcome. Thank you. And I love you too. Very grateful for your friendship.

[Heidi] Thank you. For more information about Teach Them Diligently go to the Heidi St. John podcast and click on the show notes. They are transcribed for you. For those of you who want more information about Mom Strong International, go to MomStrongInternational.com. We are in the middle of right now of launching a new summer Bible study for the month of August. I love God’s heart for us, it’s clear from the beginning of creation that He has designed us specifically for relationship—first our relationship with Him. And then for relationship with other people. We hope you guys have been encouraged to walk in that relationship today. Thanks for listening, everybody. Have a fantastic weekend and I’ll see you back here on Monday. 

Write to Heidi:
Heidi St. John
c/o Firmly Planted Family
11100 NE 34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682

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