My friends Matt and Lisa Jacobson are joining me on the podcast today. We are going to talk about what it looks like to walk this marriage thing out as the one-flesh relationship that God intended it to be.
Transcribed version of podcast is below.
Today’s Scripture Writing Challenge Verse
- Psalm 40:9-11
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Matt is the founder of FaithfulMan.com and Lisa started Club31Women.com. Together they cohost FAITHFUL LIFE podcast. They’re the authors of 100 Ways to Love Your Husband/Wife and 100 Words of Affirmation Every Husband/Wife Needs to Hear.
Hey everybody, this is Heidi St. John. Welcome to the Heidi St. John Podcast. Today is Friday, February 7th, you guys, Valentine’s Day is coming up. This is episode number 882 and I’ve got a special treat for you today. My friends Matt and Lisa Jacobson are on the show with me today, and we’re going to talk about what it looks like, to walk this marriage thing out as, the one flesh relationship that God intended it to be. Stick around, I think you’re going to be encouraged.
Thanks for tuning in today you guys. Lots of stuff coming up on my calendar. Thanks to everybody who came out to Dallas, Houston, and Greenville. I’ve had a crazy last couple of weekends, and it’s been a joy, really and a delight to meet so many of you, out on the road. We have just hit 15,000 of you over at MomStrong International this week, and we want to say how grateful we are, to be walking alongside people that really want to know God’s Word, to study then to show themselves approved, as a workman who do not need to be ashamed. And so very, very excited about that, and excited about what God is doing in your lives. And one of the things I love to do here, every Friday, is to have men and women on the Podcast with, me who are thought leaders, who are really out in the culture, being the salt and light that God has called us to be. Men and women whose faith is actually speaking in the culture. And I am so tickled today, because I’ve known Matt and Lisa Jacobson for a long time.
Lisa and I met because she’s been in the blogosphere a long time ago, and they cohost the FAITHFUL LIFE Podcast, and they’ve written a series of books, and we’re going to be talking with them today about marriage, and how important it is. And I’m hoping that this is going to be a conversation that you will listen together, as husband and wife and be encouraged. So Matt and Lisa Jacobson, welcome to the Podcast.
[Lisa] Thanks so much, Heidi.
[Matt] Super good to be here today.
[Heidi] You guys are a going concern. You’ve got a brand new series of books coming out, and I was just telling you before we went on the air, I got your new ones in the middle of this, they’re like gift books, and they’re darling for one thing, the visual learner in me was like, “Those are so cute. I want them in every room of my house.” But they’re really… You guys are… You’re on a mission, to really encourage people to walk in right relationship, husbands and wives, to walk in right relationships, with each other, and the new one, 100 Ways to Love Your Husband / 100 Ways to Love Your Wife, follows after The Words of Affirmation books that you wrote. What is motivating you? Because I have authors on the show all the time, and one does not simply write a book. Something has to be pushing you to want to get a message out. What is that in your life?
[Matt] Well, actually what we’re hoping, that everybody experiences, is a normal Christian marriage. Okay? Now, listen…
[Heidi] Well, because we are not doing the normal now, that’s for sure.
[Matt] Well, and a lot of people’s experiences is a normal Christian marriage, there’s disaster on every side. Who wants that? But that’s a common Christian marriage. A normal Christian marriage is what you find in the Bible. God gets a bad rap a lot of the time, as being a bit of a prude or Christians are, maybe a little uptight about things. But listen, we are people of the Book, right?
[Heidi] That’s right.
[Matt] And how did the Book start? It started with two naked people in a garden.
[Heidi] Yeah. You’re right there.
[Matt] So the world has nothing to teach Christians, about what it means to have a beautiful, wonderful, rich, open, grace-filled marriage, that you’re just both enjoying so much, and one that’s hot as tar. Have you read the Song of Songs?
[Matt] This is normal for Christian marriage. You remove the euphemistic references to fruit, you’ve got a solid all rating. So listen, God is in favor of the fun, and the richness, and the depth in marriage. And we want to share that with people.
[Heidi] I love that. And you guys, you’re not strangers to marriage. You’ve been married for 27 years. You’ve got yourselves a passel of kids, what’s going on in your marriage… And how long you got… how many kids do you guys have?
[Lisa] We have eight kids and we have eight kids, 12 and under. So just right one after another. And yet, even in all of that, we have learned, and grown in our love for one another, and our passion for marriage, and not just for ourselves, obviously we enjoy the benefits of that, but honestly, the message that that is to your kids, first of all, is powerful. And to hear older kids say, “This is the kind of marriage we want.” And this is the gospel that we have to offer the world, our love for one another. It’s a testimony, to what God’s done in our lives and in our hearts.
[Heidi] Yeah, that’s right. And I know, that you have a passion to see, and I love Matt, it’s so comes through when you’re speaking, this passion to say, “Listen, how about we stop letting the world take the narrative for God’s people? And how about we start reclaiming.” Because really marriage is from God, He made it, He defined it. And even though the world’s trying to redefine it, they’ll never be able to, because ultimately God’s definition, like gravity, is going to stand. And when you look around you, both of you have been married for a long time, and the parenting thing, and we get married and we’ve got such high hopes.
[Matt] I agree.
[Heidi] We really do. And then, the mortgages come, and the children, and the hardships, and the pain, and you guys have been married long enough to walk through deep water, and come back out on the other side and say, “We still want, those two naked people in the garden story.” That is the story that we still want.
[Heidi] And every married couple, listen to this right now. I know the men are like, “I’m going to go home. My wife’s going to listen to this with me.” Talk to the couples for just a few minutes about… because I know those people listening to this go, “Maybe that’s working great for you, but it’s not working for me. We don’t have that kind of a marriage. We don’t know how to get to that marriage.” Can you minister to the heart of that husband, or that wife, that is wondering how to rekindle, something that they’ve lost?
[Matt] Absolutely. Well listen, Heidi, we were at a conference not that long ago, and I happened to be speaking to a group of couples, but there was one guy there, his wife wasn’t there, and it was the question and answer time, and he lifts up his hand, and he goes, “Hey, I got a question here. My wife just doesn’t want to have sex with me.” And everybody goes, “Well I guess…” Having that conversation now, right in the middle of a room full of couples..
[Heidi] All right. Keep it real.
[Matt] … And I said, “Well, hey friend, I’ve got one question for you. When was the last time, you took your wife on a date where you arranged everything, and all she had to do was show up looking beautiful.” And you said, “Hey babe, let’s go on a date. And I’m handling everything. When was the last time that happened?” And he goes, “Well, we’ve been kind of busy, lately.” And I said, “All right.” I think we’ve got the answer right there, because really, finding that rich place in marriage has to do with pursuing a life, that is filled with decisions in the day, not just in the month, but in the day. Decisions that say, “I love you.” Rather than decisions that say, “I love me.”
And that’s really what we’re trying to get to, in this book, is teaching people, how on a daily basis, you can choose to love your spouse in a very tangible, practical way. And so a lot of people… if you have a marriage that’s maybe lost the spark a little bit, it’s going to take one of you, to start striking that match. You never saw a camp fire burst into flame by spontaneous combustion. Somebody had to gather the woods, somebody had to get some tinder, or something that would start that little, flame or take that spark. In other words, there’s an endeavor that has to be employed here. You’ve got to do something. You’ve got to act. And the thing is, the marriage that you have today, is based on the building materials and methods that you used yesterday. And the marriage that you have, from this point on, is based on the same things.
So if you want things to change, then somebody’s got to act. And that’s really what in 100 Ways to Love Your Wife / 100 Ways to Love Your Husband. That’s what we’re trying to teach people how to do, is to start employing specific things today that you can do. It is amazing… you should tell a story. It’s just amazing what a little change will do in terms of really transforming a marriage.
[Lisa] Speaking of spark, it goes both ways. A lot of times we blame the men, I feel like they get a bad rap, but women have their own part..
[Heidi] Particularly in the culture right now.
[Lisa] … Yeah. Like it just come to mind, it’s a simple thing but… it was when we were younger and we had a bunch of young kids, and I was trying to make dinner, and I’m sauteing the onions and peppers, and Matt came home from work, walked in, and he came up behind me while I was in front of the stove and wrapped his arms around me. And I just thought, “I do not have time for this right now.” And that was my first thought. And I’m sure he could feel my body language kind of bristle. Because I am a…
[Heidi] Kind of tense.
[Lisa] Thank you very much, “Can’t you see?” And then I had that moment of conviction where I thought, I felt the… Just the spirit going, “What are you doing? You don’t have time for love?” And I thought, “Oh, give me a second chance. Turn off the stove.” And I thought, “What would happen, if I turned around and leaned back right into him instead?” And so he was still nearby and I did that, whipped around, leaned into him and yeah, the sparks flew. It was unexpected, very exciting, and the kids looked up and was like, “What are mom and dad doing?
[Matt] It was kind of like the heat from the stove transferred and it exploded to us. That’s what you really wanted to do.
[Lisa] And I know it’s just a small example, but it’s those kinds of things that happen throughout the day, through the days, that actually build that kind of loving exchange so that when you do have those hard moments, or those disappointments, or even hurts, you’ve got this building up of warmth that helps to shoulder some of that. So you’re not just cold, cold, cold, and now it’s really hard. Do you know what I’m saying? It’s…
[Matt] I think it’s one of the reasons why people turn foreplay into a college course that you have to study for years to get it right. Really, having a physical relationship, and a wonderful exchange, when the lights go out, has to do with how loving we were with each other up to that point, the kind way we interacted with each other, the thoughtful things that we did for each other. For instance, I like to make coffee, for Lisa, in the morning and you like it.
[Lisa] … And I like you to make me coffee. It works out really well.
[Matt] You look at that and wonder what that’s got to do with anything. And what it is, it’s just a gesture. Just a simple, small gesture, I know she loves it, and I love doing it for her. Or how about just a kind way of communicating. Or, I like what you talk about babe. Relative to, if I’ve just walked into the room.
[Lisa] Well, just when you’re dating, or even at first months of marriage, he walks into the room, or walks into a party, and your eyes kind of light up. You’re like, “Hey, there’s my man.” Everybody can see it. Who isn’t seeing that?
[Heidi] That’s right.
[Matt] And did that happen before we were married and maybe the first month after?
[Lisa] And I thought, well, why would we stop? Why would I stop lighting up? Because he’s still the man I’ve committed my life and love to. And I determined that I would light up, at least once a day, if not more, when he walked in the room. Whether it was bringing him a cup of coffee, or just when he was… at the end of the day. But just communicating with my eyes, my whole demeanor that, “Hey, I am so excited to see you.”
[Matt] One of the things I think that we… we just allow life to squeeze out the best that a relationship has to offer, and so, nobody has to tell a guy to pursue his wife, prior to marriage. Man, he’s coming up with creative ways to love her, creative ways to love.
[Heidi] Even if he’s broke, even if he’s broke, it doesn’t matter. People say , “Well we don’t have any money.” And I’m always like, “Yes. So, you didn’t have any money when you met her either.”
[Matt] Well, and here’s the thing, just talking about not having money. If you guys go out for a cup of coffee, just anybody listening, you don’t just think of it of a coffee date. All you have to do to turn that into an amazing date, guys, is to be genuinely interested in the heart of your wife. Genuinely ask, “How are you doing? What’s going on? How are you feeling? What are some of the thoughts, fears, aspirations, dreams, joys that you’ve had lately?” That cup of coffee, just became an amazing date. And, we were talking just moments ago, about how nobody has to tell a guy any of this prior to marriage. And the thing that we forget, and somehow we just let the noise, and the busyness, and the pressures of life, squeeze out of our marriage and our relationship. The thing that we forget, is that that passionate kiss, on the wedding day, and those passionate times afterwards, your wife has never stopped desiring to be desired.
And she wants… When did your wife say, “You know, that wonderful, passionate, loving way you kissed me for the first two or three months after our marriage, I’d really like you to tone that down.” When did that happen last in a relationship? But somehow we just leave off with this. So I just say one of the things I say in the book, it’s not rocket science, but it’s something that you need to do. When you kiss your wife, kiss her with passion. Just kiss her with meaning and intention. Hold her close, and just make it linger another five seconds than normal. And you’ll be surprised how she’ll respond to that.
[Heidi] It’s so important to you. I love that you guys that you’re highlighting, “That this isn’t rocket science.” There are things just that we forget. Because our lives are so busy, and the noise around us. And sometimes the noise that’s around us, keeps us from noticing things that, when our lives weren’t so noisy, and weren’t so cluttered, and weren’t so busy, that we may have instinctively seen. And I love that you’re bringing people back. Just sort of seeing that. Lisa I feel like I cut you off. What were you trying to say?
[Lisa] And to add to that, what you’re saying is, we get lost in the business of marriage and family, so that your communication ends up being, “Okay, are you taking the kids or am I?” And, “Are you going to make it to that meeting?” And, “Should we have so-and-so over on Friday night?” And if all your relationship and communication ends up being business related, well it’s kind of hard to have that warm, personal, intimate closeness that you actually desire. And so Matt and I are, we’re busy in the next few weeks. And like I said, we have eight kids, and we have ministry both online and in real life. So we’ve got as much excuse I think as anybody, but we’ve actually committed to it. If we’re going to sit down to have a date or, or even just sit down and have a cup of coffee, we make a deal like no business for the next 30 minutes, the next hour, and we’re just going to talk about Matt the man, Lisa the woman. And so they lose that because I think that is part of what happens.
[Matt] For any guys who are thinking, “Well, how would I get started? What should I do?” Again, not rocket science. All you have to do is, A- Pick a time, B- Pick the place, and take care of the details. A lot of times we get into this habit of dumping all the details of date night on our wife. “Oh yeah, yeah. Get it all that arranged and I’ll show up and I’ll have dinner.” No. You take care of that. You show some intentions, some leadership, and some heartfelt pursuit of your wife’s heart, and you handle the babysitter. You just take care of the details. All she has to do is show up looking beautiful, and you start asking her questions about her, about what matters to her, what she’s concerned about, how she’s feeling. You’re going to have an awesome time of it. In fact we have one very big friend who I put the question to, I said, “When was the last time you dated?”
He went, “Well you know, we’re just busy and I’m going…” I haven’t met an American in the last 20 years who wasn’t incredibly busy.
[Heidi] No Kidding.
[Matt] So, that’s not going away. We always have… You’ve got to remember this guy’s listening, we always have time for our real priorities. And our real priorities are what we pursue with our time, and everybody knows that, especially your wife. So we’ve got to decide that we’re going to make our wives and our relationship our priority. We’re going to be intentional. This guy, just took the instruction, because I was working with him discipling him, and he took his wife out on a date. And they didn’t do anything except get a cup of coffee, and sit in the car, and actually track it, in this case. And talked for hours. He came to the next session with me, I’m a marriage coach, and I work with couples around the country. He came to the next session, and he literally… I’ve never seen this, that… you couldn’t imagine this guy, he looks like a mountain. He broke down in tears crying. And it was the most amazing time he and his wife had had together in..
[Matt] … in years in many, and
[Lisa] And also for the women, I’m going to just jump in here too, because, and I don’t want to pick on homeschool moms but..
[Heidi] They can take it. Come on girls. You can take it. That’s all right.
[Lisa] … We are so busy, because we’re doing this important work. We’re teaching our kids and we’re raising them for the Lord. And so, we’ve also seen where a guy said, “Well, I kind of tried to take my wife out, or tried to get some time with her, but her schedule is so full, she doesn’t have time.” It doesn’t make sense. Or she’ll look at her calendar and try to, “Well, I think in a week from Thursday, I’ve got a little slot here.” And if that’s the case, then you are too busy. Because whatever you’re doing, cannot be possibly be more important, than building a relationship with your husband. And it’s shortsighted to be thinking that way, because there is nothing better you can teach your kids, than to teach them how to have a loving relationship. How to have a solid marriage, and the gospel that goes out from that.
[Heidi] Yeah, it’s really true.
[Matt] Yeah. As believers, as people of the Book, as people who are representing Christ, we need to be able to say, and I’m going to ask everybody listening. Can you say this? What I’m about to say? Can you say these words to your kids, to the people that see you at church, to the people that see in the grocery store. Can you say, “Follow my example in marriage, I want you to experience a tremendous marriage. And so follow my example. I’m not perfect, but I want you to follow my example in marriage. I want you to have the kind of marriage that I have, because that’s a normal Christian marriage.” And so sometimes we’ve got a long way to go to get from point A to point B, but that really is what God is calling us to do.
[Heidi] Well I think one of the things that you guys point out so rightly, in the book, is that a good marriage takes work. It takes work, it takes intentionality, it takes a purposefulness. It’s you waking up every day and making that decision, to prioritize your relationship with your spouse. And I know that there are lots of men and women listening to this right now, who are very young in their marriages, lots of young families that are listening to this. And I’m curious to know when you… and because I’m sure you’re counseling, men and women who are considering getting married, or maybe there are newlyweds, and so very early on, I would so much rather say, “Let’s help you guys build some foundational pieces so that you don’t get 15 years into your marriage and then go, what happened?” So what is some of the best encouragement, the best advice that you can give to couples who’ve been married for maybe three years or less, or they’re considering getting married?
[Matt] 100 Ways to Love Your Husband / 100 Ways to Love Your Wife, those books are practical applications of the principles that we find in the Scripture. So the foundation is the Word of God. Embrace what God has said, and do things His way. Heidi, can I just use maybe one example, and that is this business of arguing and this business of bickering and acrimony, in a marriage. We look at that and go, “Oh Hey, it’s just normal for a couple to argue.” Not according to the word of God. In Proverbs 13:10, it says, “From pride comes contention.” If you’ve got contention in your marriage, it’s not okay. It’s because you’re prideful. We don’t even have to ask the question. We just know from the Word of God, you are prideful, if you’re arguing in your marriage. What does God think of pride?
He hates pride. As Christians, we’ve got to banish behaviors, from our marriage and from our lives, that are inconsistent with a life, that is yielded to God’s Word. And that’s just one example, of how we take the Word, it’s foundational for how we believe, what we think. And the thing about what we think is, if you think wrong, you’ll never live strong. So we’ve got to order our thinking according to the Word of God. That’s number one. Embrace what it says, about the roles. Embrace what it says, about how to love each other, how to walk with each other. And I’ve really loved babe, what you say about all of those one another’s.
[Lisa] Yeah, all those Scripture, those verses that talk about one another. And so there’s be tenderhearted, be kind, be forgiving one another. And we read those Scriptures and think all that is so good. And I just really need to be like that with Susan. She’s difficult to love, but I’m going to love her this way. And never realizing, or letting it come home that, you know what, I’ll actually start with this man right next to me. And that whole, being tenderhearted, being kind, being forgiving, it’s with him. It’s not just with those people out there and because it’s always interesting to me how you hear people talking about their willingness to forgive that other person with that offends. Their husband leaves the wet towel on the floor, and it’s unforgivable. You know what? You can start by offering grace to the guy right next to you. And that’s where you should start.
[Matt] So relative to this young couple getting married, we would just want to remind them and remind the couple that’s been married for 30 years and still hasn’t yet figured it out, the marriage that you have, is the marriage that you’re building, or you’re going to build. Marriage doesn’t just happen to a couple. They built it, or you’re going to build it. And so as a young couple, that’s just starting out just remember, it’s about what you’re building. What materials are you using? What methods are you using? It’s critical to recognize you’ve got a tremendous responsibility in this thing that you’re building, and especially the men, who are supposed to be leading in this endeavor. And to be a godly man, and make it a wonderful and blessing for your wife to follow in.
[Heidi] I love that. Just the reminder too, that God has really ordained marriage, in a way that the men are to be the leaders in their homes, and I often talk to women, who feel frustrated because A- the world’s completely… it’s the antithesis of what God says in the Word right now. I saw a woman in the Portland airport, and I’m very familiar with the Portland airport, and I saw a woman with a T-shirt that said, “The future is feminine.” And I had to laugh out loud. Well, first of all, the ridiculousness of that, I was like, “You do realize that if the future is feminine, we’re all going to die.”
[Matt] “Yeah, there’s that.”
[Heidi] There’s always that, kind of these big problems. But the underlying issue is, “I want to rebel against God’s created order.” The underlying issue is a rebellion against what God says is right. And I was speaking to a gentleman several months ago, at a conference I was speaking at, and he was saying how frustrated he was. He said, “I’m just so tired of feeling like I’m supposed to initiate, and I’m supposed to…” And I said, “You know what? Lean into what God’s Word says, your role is to be, because I have yet to meet a godly woman, who does not long to respond to the loving leadership of her husband in every way.” And it’s that loving leadership. It’s not the domineering, “Woman bring my dinner.” That’s not what God said at all. And instead He said, “I met you.”…
I’ve heard you say this before, and I know, I’ve heard my husband say this too. And it’s such a beautiful reminder of God’s heart for a marriage. I’m wondering if you can touch on it for just a minute, because we talk so often about roles in marriage, and the role that God gave the husband and the wife is very specific roles, and one of them involves laying down his life. What role is that?
[Matt] Exactly right. Well, it depends how we’re going to talk to the woman in the airport, or we going to talk to the other one?
[Heidi] I already talked to her. She didn’t really want to talk for very long.
[Matt] Right, right. We always want to read somebody else’s mail, when it comes to the Word of God, and what God wrote for the man, or for the woman. We kind of look at what He wrote for the ones who say, “Hey, hey, you’re supposed to do this, this, and the other thing. And you’re not doing that.” But you know what? If men would just spend their time focused on the things that God wrote to them, how the say are to lead and lay down their lives. Of course it’s the passage of Scripture, that many, many people know and that we toss over our shoulder, like a towel, that we’re done with. You are to love your wife as Christ loved the church. If you meditate on that, if you actually let that resonate with your thoughts, and right down into your soul, and you just, just think about it for a minute, I think your pant leg is going to shake a little bit against your boot. Because it’s actually a tremendously challenging, frankly, impossible thing in the flesh to do, to actually love your wife as Christ loved the church.
What a standard that God is laying down for you as the husband, to exemplify and to lead your wife under. And so we need to just focus on what God has told us. And when we do that, we make submitting to us, in the leadership role that God has given. We make it a blessed thing and a beautiful thing. There’s a real safety, in yielding to a man, who has spent time meditating on God’s Word, and His requirement, that he should love his wife as Christ loved the church. That he’s a spiritual covering for his wife. The man who has meditated on that, and is seeking to walk in that by the power of the Holy Spirit that God has placed in his heart, that’s a beautiful, wonderful, safe place for any woman’s heart.
[Heidi] Yeah, that’s right. And my grandparents… I came from a very broken home, but my grandparents on my mother’s side were married for nearly 75 years. And I remember Jay and I, very young in our married life, went over and we were talking to my grandfather and my grandmother about the issue of submission. And I was really wrestling with it, because I didn’t see it modeled in my home. I saw a very angry person, a very authoritarian, not at all like God describes. And so I was afraid. I love that you said it’s a safe place. Because I was afraid to yield to my husband, because I thought there’s all this yielding that’s going to take place. All this unwanted yielding. And my grandmother said, she said, or my grandfather said, “You know Heidi, in a healthy marriage, the issue of submission will never come up. Once the issue of submission has had to come up, there’s already something in the marriage that’s a mess. Something’s already wrong.”
And then he began to unpack the idea of biblical submission in marriage. And it’s an actual beautiful thing. And when it’s happening in the context of the love of God, and a love of the husband for his wife, and a wife for her husband, it’s a game changer.
[Matt] It’s really, the beauty of oneness, is what your grandmother was talking about. And that’s what God has for everyone. Oneness in all things. Heidi, I know we’re closing in on the time, but I just want to say one thing. You mentioned anger and how damaging that was to you. Guys and girls, it doesn’t matter. Anger destroys everything it touches. You are in the process of destroying your marriage, if you are allowing anger to be part of your communication with your spouse, especially from a husband to the wife. Anger destroys everything it touches. So you’ve got to manage anger, angry outbursts, from your communication. It’s part of what the enemy is using to tear down so many marriages.
[Heidi] I love the honesty that the two of you bring to the table. So when you write a book, 100 Ways to Love Your Wife, by the way, I love the tagline, the simple, Powerful Path to a Loving Marriage, because it really is simple, and it really is powerful, and the net result, that you see when you employ God’s principles, because that’s what they are, is you see life, and you begin to flourish. And I love the honesty that you bring to it. You’re not afraid to talk about the difficult subjects. We’ve touched on a lot of different subjects today, and I know that people are going to be curious about your Ministry, and where they can find you. So how do we find you online?
[Lisa] I am @club31women.com, and on Instagram I am @club31women.
[Matt] And I am @faithfulmen.com, and on Instagram, @faithfulmen and then we also cohost FAITHFUL LIFE Podcast. It’s on every platform.
[Heidi] I love it. And we’re going to link back to all things Matt and Lisa Jacobson in the show notes today, and I want to just encourage you guys if you’ve been encouraged by what you have heard Matt and Lisa touched on today, they go a lot deeper in a Hundred Ways to Love Your Husband. I’ve got a bunch of their books actually in my own personal library. I love these two. They’re the real deal, and they’ve got a message of healing and of hope for Christian marriages. So Matt and Lisa Jacobson, thank you so much for joining us today. It’s just been a joy to have you.
[Lisa] Thank you, Heidi.
[Matt] It’s been fantastic to be with you. We just love Jay and you. God bless you guys.
[Heidi] Thank you so much. For more information on Matt and Lisa Jacobson and their ministry to families, find me online, heidistjohn.com/podcast. Thanks for listening to us today, everybody. Hope you have a fantastic weekend. Get ready for Valentine’s Day. You got time, you got time. Thanks for listening, everybody. Stay faithful and I’ll see you back here on Monday.
Write to Heidi:
Heidi St. John
c/o Firmly Planted Family
11100 NE 34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682
Support this ministry by donating through E-giving. You can also send donations to: 1100 NE34th Cir, Vancouver, WA 98682