It’s hard to go a few minutes on social media or the news without noticing a post or story concerning race relations these days. It’s always good to be aware, but we must learn to make a habit of researching movements and organizations that might feel good on the surface—but under slight discernment are rotten to the core. We are told in the Bible to be wise, and social situations are surely no exception. My friend Bethany Bomberger and I are talking about Black Lives Matter and how it fits when looked at through the lens of God’s Word. Listen in. It’s an important discussion!
Transcribed version of podcast is below.
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- Esther 5:9-14
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Bethany Bomberger has been an educator for two decades. She has taught in both public and private schools, working with thousands of children, youth and adults of all ages. With a Bachelor’s Degree in Education and Family Studies from Messiah College and a Master’s Degree in Education from Regent University, Bethany has spearheaded innovative educational programs in her classrooms and the communities where she lived. She is the Co-Founder (along with her hubby) and Executive Director of The Radiance Foundation, a life-affirming organization that is rooted in the belief that we are all created in God’s image and have undeniable purpose. As a public speaker, she addresses large and diverse audiences with inspiring messages of faith, hope and Christ’s love. Married to her best friend, Ryan, Bethany is an adoptive mama who loves to celebrate courageous birthmoms and the beauty of adoption. She embraces the challenge and the blessing of homeschooling her four bold and compassionate pro-life kids: Rai Rai, Kai, Aliyah and Justice.
Hey everybody. This is Heidi st. John. Welcome to Off The Bench with Heidi St. John. This is episode number 940. It’s Friday, June 19th. And today my friend Bethany Bomberger is back on the show with me today. And we’re going to talk about all things race, and culture. And we’re going to ask the question is it really about the gospel or is it about a movement? Stick around. I think you’re going to be encouraged.
So you guys, thanks for tuning in today. Want to let you know that the podcast can now be found on Spotify. So if you’re looking for a good platform to listen to the podcast on that might be a good option for you. Also we’re in the middle of a Bible study. We’re studying profiles and courage at MomStrong International for the month of June. And actually I think we’re going to do it all summer long. So check it out. If you haven’t already momstronginternational.com.
There are a couple of things coming up on my calendar. Most of the events that we have had scheduled for this year have been canceled, but a few of them are hanging on. So I want to just encourage you guys to be in prayer for the conferences that are still trying to get above this rona thing that’s going on.
Hopefully I’m going to be at Teach Them Diligently in Mobile. That should be happening on the 9th through the 11th of July. And then I’m going to be doing Teach Them Diligently in Columbus. I’ll be speaking for FPEA, the Florida Parent Educators Association the same weekend. So we’re doing some kind of crazy things trying to make this work and just asking you guys to be in prayer for those of us who travel and speak for a living. And really encourage you to buy tickets to those events and show up. We really need you guys to come.
All right, I’m not going to prattle on today because I’m just so thrilled. My friend, Kathy Barnett was supposed to be on the show with me today, but she got called away to a pretty important interview, which you guys are probably going to hear here pretty quick. And so I called my friend Bethany and I said, “Hey, I’ve got some time. Would you be willing to come on?”
And basically I know she can talk about the same things that Kathy and I are going to talk about. So it just so happened that she was available and was willing to come on the show. I’m super stoked. Bethany, welcome back to the podcast.
[Bethany] Oh, it is so fun to be with you. And as much as I’m sort of sad that Kathy wasn’t able to be with you today, I’m glad that we’ll have some time together to talk about things that we’re both radically passionate about.
[Heidi] Oh yeah. I’m glad too. Man, the world’s on fire. The world’s on fire.
[Bethany] Absolutely. Burning from city to city. And I think that it’s physically burning, but spiritually we’re watching some serious stuff go down.
[Heidi] Yeah. That’s for sure. You guys live on the east, back east and you’re in Virginia, correct?
[Bethany] We are. We’re just outside of D.C., About 45 minutes outside of D.C. Yes.
[Heidi] Oh my goodness. You know what? It’s a good thing I don’t live there. I think I might be in downtown D.C. every day. I mean, you’re basically living in a kind of a hotbed really and you’ve got Governor Northam Who’s completely unhinged. I mean, this guy’s a radical abortionist. And then I’m over here with Emperor Inslee.
[Bethany] I don’t know. Ryan and I look at each other, we’re like, “Where can we move? Can we just run?” But the Lord’s like, “We planted you where you are.” So we’re on the armor of God and stand. And I just love that we’re holding it down on the east coast while you’re holding it down on the west coast. And we’re just believing that greater is He that is with us than He that is in the world. And we were in D.C.last week. And we were just a couple of blocks from the White House. And so we were just looking at all the barricades praying as we were driving to the set that Ryan was going to speak on and driving by all these shops that are boarded up and the place was like a ghost town because you’re choosing to not be outside.
And it’s sad. It’s a sad effect of what’s gone on here. And I know we’ll talk more about this, but most of the world has been, most of the nation has been bamboozled into believing that what they’re standing for is something unifying. But what we’re seeing evidence of is that that’s actually not the case.
[Heidi] Yeah, that’s true and a great place to start. Obviously, that conversation is to talk about Black Lives Matter, which is really the movement that was gas lit. It’s always been there. These guys are always looking for a crisis, right? They thrive on crisis and that’s certainly been the case right now. So they looked for an opportunity and the death of George Floyd basically gave it to them. And so now you see CHAZ is taken over, or CHOP whatever they keep changing the name in Seattle. And we’re watching literally a nation grappling with whether or not we want to stand for this organization with this hashtag and what a genius thing to do, right?
Because who doesn’t believe that Black Lives Matter? We all think that, right? But it’s much more than a hashtag. It’s an organization and you are at the forefront of this. Tell everybody a little bit about Ryan, for people who don’t remember or maybe we’ve got a whole bunch of new listeners. But I think it’d be good for people to be introduced to you and kind of here, because you really have a unique voice to be able to speak into this topic.
[Bethany] Sure. So for those that don’t know my husband, Ryan Bomberger and I, we run the Radiance Foundation and we’re headed into our 11th year doing this and our heart through the Radiance Foundation is to illuminate that every life has value, intrinsic, irrevocable, irreplaceable value. And so we educate about a myriad of social issues. We talk about the life issue. We talk about abortion, adoption, fatherlessness, poverty, race, parenting.
We look at these social issues in the context of God-given purpose. And then our prayer is that by educating people from a statistical, historical and biblical perspective, that folks would be motivated. Not just to have knowledge, not just to declare their faith, but to actually live out what they believe. So as the culture brings us these waves of issues, like you said, it was like there was a group almost laying in wait, waiting for which story they were going to highlight.
We’ve watched as the media brought to light this situation. And so our hearts are to take a look at the gospel, marry the gospel with a statistical, well-researched perspective and being able to stand up in the middle of a culture that has a very ungodly worldview. And so our heart is to stand and say, “Folks, hold onto the gospel. Remember that you’re a Christian first.” And let’s look at what’s going on through that filter and not be so easily swayed by the narrative that the media is putting out, which is essentially propaganda to push us to believe one thing or another and thus act the way that they would like us to.
[Heidi] Yeah, that’s right. And really they’re pushing us away from each other. I mean, they’re absolutely sewing seeds of division. We can certainly see it here. One of my friends who’s black called me last week, she was in the grocery store. She’s like, “Heidi, this random woman, this random white woman came up to me today and apologized for her white privilege.” And my friend was offended. She was like, “So what you’re telling me is my life hasn’t been worth anything up until now? Thank you for highlighting it.”
[Heidi] I mean, that’s what she said. “It was so offensive.” She said, “I don’t think people realize that they’re being used.” Black Lives Matter does not care about black lives. They care about a political agenda. And if you look behind the curtain, if you pull the curtain away from Black Lives Matter from the front, which says, “We care about racial justice blah, blah, blah, blah.” What do they find, Bethany? What’s behind the curtain at Black Lives Matter?
[Bethany] Well, you said this correctly, Black Lives Matter sounds wonderful. It’s like, “Yes, I can 100% agree with the concept. Black lives do matter.” However, it has moved beyond a hashtag. It’s become a movement with a specific agenda that we are now seeing has become social reform and is changing and not just shifting culture, but we’ll see it shifting legislation, just shifting hearts and minds.
And just as a side note, I’m saying this to you, and I’m thinking about the fact that we watched this happen with the LGBT movement. We saw something that looked wonderful, right? We saw rainbows, unicorns and how many Christians were like, “We can just love one another.” Well, love means that we look deeper. We understand what is behind a cute hashtag. And if it doesn’t line up with the Scripture, then we can’t stand beside it.
And when we do, we watch what has happened with an agenda, the LGBTQ agenda, which has now influenced the media. We saw the Supreme Court ruling that came down this past week in the same way Black Lives Matter was never just about a simple, caring hashtag. It was about a movement that number one in my heart and as a mama and I have four kiddos, biological and adopted, some of my kids are mixed. My son is black, the one that we adopted. And so I’m looking and I’m saying, “What is this movement about and how is it going to translate into our world?”
And I’m looking at a movement, that’s saying, “Number one, we’ve never had a goal of forgiveness or reconciliation.” That’s never been on the table for them. They are being true to themselves. They are unapologetic about who they are and what they believe. I wish Christians would take time to read their About Us page or What We Believe page. They will see that it is about purely black power. And listen, white supremacy needs to end. There’s no space for it in my heart, my mind, but there’s no space for replacing something as horrific as white supremacy with a different culture, a different people group that says “We’re the supreme.” So they are unapologetic about creating a world of black power, not reconciliation.
[Heidi] Well, that is racism on its face. I mean, if we’re going to create a world of black power, that’s just as bad as if we want to create a world of white power and it’s racist on its face. And I did what you’re suggesting and actually I’ll link back in the show notes today, because boy, it’d be good for people just to read what they’re doing. So Black Lives Matter on their About page, there’s a whole bunch of things. But one of the things that they say is, “We affirm the lives of black queer and trans folks, disabled, undocumented folks with records, black and all lives along the gender spectrum.” This is not about black people. This is about what you said before. An ungodly social reform. It’s ungodly social reform.
If they were here about just black lives matter, their narrative would be drastically different. But they expose themselves and people are like, “Yes, what they’re doing is they’re playing on the desire of ordinary people to be kind, right? Most people want to be kind. And I think what you said is, right. Of course, yes, black lives matter. But boy, if you come out and say, “All lives matter.” Know they’re going to jump on you because they want you to continue the narrative. And the narrative leads you, the hashtag takes you to the organization where you can donate. And if you click on the donate button, where is their money going? It is fascinating to watch. It’s going towards democratic operatives.
[Heidi] I think it goes to ActBlue. I’m pretty sure.
[Bethany] It does. 100% it goes to ActBlue. And it’s actually from our perspective, Heidi, I know that you mentioned that people at their heart, at their deepest level want to be kind and compassionate and the enemy is going to use that against us. We are going to use something that God created for good and for the kingdom against Christians who aren’t understanding or taking the time to really look at what’s going on.
And it’s incredible because people want to stand against injustice, but then to watch what is going on to see that the enemy is using the compassion that is in hearts to sow seeds into, like you said, a divisive movement that really is going to continue. You sow seeds of division, what do you reap? You reap division. You sow seeds of hate, you’re going to reap hate and violence. We’re seeing the result of the seeds that have been sown. And so, yeah.
[Heidi] So when people donate to these things, they need to understand you’re donating to further division. You are not donating to something that’s going to bring unity, not even within the black community. It’s interesting, Ray Reynolds is running for Senate here in Washington State happens to be a friend of mine and a black conservative, which hello in the northwest if you’re a black conservative, they’re going to attack you.
He also happens to be a veteran of the police force. And I was talking to him the other day and he said, “Heidi, I came out,” in fact, he’ll come on the show with me next week. But he said, “Heidi, I came out and I said, listen, Black Lives Matter is a political organization. They don’t care about black lives.” He said “the backlash he got was out of this world.” And he’s a black man. You would think that as a black man, they would say, “Okay, we disagree with you, but tell us what you … Why are you saying that? Why do you say that?”
No, no conversation. It’s immediate hate. It’s immediate you’re an Uncle Tom. Immediate you’re a traitor, you’re a coon, whatever. He said, “Heidi, this is demonic on its face. It is from the father of lies.” And I think at this point, Bethany, you and I have talked about this before. The only thing that the left needs in this nation, the people that are pushing this to succeed is for people of conscience to be quiet. Do you agree?
[Bethany] Oh, I agree 100%. And just to add to this conversation that we’re having, for those that are listening, you can go to M4BL. That’s Movement for Black Lives .org. You can look up their policy platforms. You can read about the things that we are talking about. So you don’t have to just take it from Heidi and I, you can look at the Black Lives Matter website, but also take some time to look at M4BL, because that’s really telling as well.
And yeah, this is definitely the father of lies is at work here. And it’s interesting because as I’m walking through this and understanding what it is that taking all of this information in myself, I’m navigating it with my children and I’m navigating it with my mixed race children. And I’m looking at this and I’m saying, “Folks, if we don’t understand that Acts 17:26 says we are from one blood.” If that isn’t our starting point in our ending point, then we open up ourselves to believe that the lies that are being peddled as truth are in fact truth when they are not.
And if you take any of this ideology, and if I would allow my children to take it on, this worldly ideology, what will happen is I will have children that will be perpetually at odds with themself. And truth withstands every situation and every circumstance. It brings freedom regardless of the circumstances around it. So when you take these lies that we’re talking about and you translate it to a child who is even mixed race. Which by the way, folks, we’re moving away from a society that we can even look at people and say, ‘They’re black, they’re white.” We’re more mixed now than we’ve ever been.
I mean, interracial marriage became legal in 1967. So when this movement is trying to be divisive and say, “Look, we haven’t come anywhere. We’re back.” No, we’re moving in the direction of equality for all. But anyway, the point that I was making was that honestly, if truth can’t stand… and we are going to see like in my children, that this ideology that says, “An entire people group will forever be the oppressors. And another entire people group will forever be the oppressed.” We’re actually feeding lies that will cause forever internal conflict. It won’t happen on my watch. It just won’t.
[Heidi] Well, I think I love that you’re doing that because it takes courage. It actually takes courage to stand in the culture right now, and to go against the winds of the culture, because really what we’re dealing with is a mob mentality. We’re dealing with a mob and I still believe in the silent majority in this country. I actually think they need to stop being silent. Because what I see is people who are not just silent, they’re afraid.
They’re afraid of being bullied. They’re afraid of being attacked. They’re afraid of losing their jobs. We’re watching, right? We just saw a couple of days ago, some of the right leaning websites, people behind them, they’re in their personal Facebook pages. If they support something, the liberals will attack them and Google will de-platform them. It’s amazing what’s happening right now. And Christians are being sucked into this.
Allie Beth Stuckey who’s going to be coming on my show here in just a little bit. I saw her tweet a couple of days ago. She was highlighting something which the church doesn’t want to see. She highlighted a tweet that Beth Moore liked. Beth Moore, who’s been a Bible teacher that I have loved and admired for many years. And she said that Beth Moore has just appreciated and liked a tweet that reflects the tragic attitude of too many self-identifying Christians right now.
And this is what it is. “The gospel is not only insufficient, it’s inappropriate.” And this was the tweet that Beth Moore liked. The tweet was written by Kristen Howerton, and it says, “Christians do not treat the protests as a new mission field. Do not go in to love on people or to lead people in prayer. Don’t go to be a Christian voice in the crowd or to share God’s love or witness to people. Go to fight systemic racism and racial violence.” The end. Notice how we’ve marginalized believers now. And they’re saying this isn’t about the gospel, but you and I both know that without the gospel, everything we’re doing is meaningless.
[Bethany] It’s the ultimate redemptive story. It’s the only way that we’re going to stop going around the mountain. You see, it’s important for us to be empathetic, to hear what folks are saying, to grieve with those that are grieving and to mourn with those that are mourning, but we cannot stop there. And without the gospel, we can’t move past that into forgiveness, repentance, and ultimately transformation.
And so when something like this happens again, where are we going to be? We’re going to be back running around the base of the same mountain, doing the same things and seeing the same result. And the Lord’s like, “I’ve called you higher people. I’ve called us so that …” We watched when this happened with Ferguson. We’ve watched with Trayvon Martin, and where have we come from there? We’ve come to a place that we’re still not able to do what God has asked us to do and to be models of reconciliation and to bring freedom.
That’s God’s heart, for freedom, that if there are those oppressed, that they would know freedom. And you can’t know that, you cannot know that separate from the gospel.
[Heidi] That’s right.
[Bethany] And I feel that what Beth Moore was “okaying” is abhorrent. And it’s almost like the heart of God is grieving such a veiled look at things. I was watching, I don’t know if you’ve seen what’s gone on right on the streets where George Floyd died, a number of churches came together. Our buddy Sean Foyte was really leading this prayer movement. And there were 10 churches that came together. They, for days, have had 24-hour prayer and worship. They have spoken the gospel. We’ve watched as folks are being baptized on that same street…
[Bethany] … they walked through. Instead of perpetuating some of the other ideologies they say, “Grab the hand of one person next to you and individual to individual blessing other people,” opening it up. “Hey, listen, if the Lord is highlighting sin in your own heart, let’s repent. You can repent for that, but let’s move forward through repentance, into relationship with one another.”
And for me, that is what God is calling us to do because the next time we hit something like this and there’s these issues that are brought to the forefront, we have folks that are equipped to walk people through freedom and forgiveness and not live the rest of their life in this sense of oppression.
Like what you shared about the woman who approached your friend in the store and she’s apologizing for white privilege. Where in the Bible does it say wear your shame from now to forever, because you can’t change the color of your skin? It doesn’t. That’s not God’s heart for a brown person, a white person, any hue, any of our hues. It’s not his word that we carry shame as our identity. He says, “Exchange your shame for my glory.”
[Heidi] Yeah, that’s right. So for people who are listening to this today, and I know this happens a lot, I’ve been posting every morning at 7:14 in the spirit of second Chronicle 7:14. “If my people who are called by my name will humble themselves and pray,” and basically repent because we’ve allowed this to happen. This abortion happened on our watch, on our lifetime.
We’ve allowed so many things to come into the church. We have embraced homosexuality and call to tolerance. I mean, if a nation was ripe for judgment right now, the United States is. And so I think that’s absolutely true, but I never want to leave people feeling discouraged, because God is still at work. He is on his throne. And I know that you guys are right up there like I am on the front lines, fighting this thing with everything that’s in you.
And for people who are listening, I’m always telling people, “Listen, we pray so that we know what God wants us to do.” We don’t pray so we can sit on our hands and go, “Lord, please come back.” We’re going to shut our windows and our doors until the rapture. God has us here for such a time as this. And just like Esther was called for her lifetime and Moses for his lifetime, Bethany Bomberger and Heidi St. John have been called for this time, for this time in the culture.
And so when you talk to people who say, “I’m frustrated, I don’t know what to do. I want to do something,” where do you point those people? How is it for people who are listening to this who say, “I’m ready for my voice to be heard. I’m going to stop being quiet. I’m going to stop giving them my silence,” which is what they want. “And I’m going to start stepping out in faith.” Where’s a good place to start?
[Bethany] I think that a big part of it is what you’re doing, Heidi, and allowing people to start conversations that will change their mindset. I’m a firm believer that education is primary. And as Christians, we go to the Word of God. The reality is that freedom, peace, and reconciliation are all biblical concepts. However, statistically, there are ways that we can look at what’s going on, understand what’s going on and see that the research shows that we can move forward.
For instance, if we talk about the research about fatherlessness, just for instance, and we talk about the epidemic in our country, we can see all of the poor effects that happen with fatherlessness. And we can understand that God’s concept of a structure for family was put in place for the success of a society. And we’re seeing what happens when that doesn’t come to pass.
So when people think that reading the Bible is mainly just about making yourself feel good, I say, “First of all, read the Bible so that you’re educated about what God says is a godly construct. And then find those statistics. Go to the sources, not secondary sources, primary sources, and understand that whatever God is saying is a good thing.”
We could show that, so you could speak to a secular audience about the importance of fathers, in particular, and that’s why at The Radiance, radiance.life, this is what our heart is to do, to really put out articles, to link to primary sources. The books that Ryan has written have, I think, 13 or 14. He wrote a book, Not Equal, Civil Rights Gone Wrong. It actually might be 15 pages of end notes so that people can see that we’re not just talking about concepts that sound good.
We’re talking about biblical concepts that we’re watching lined up with the statistical evidence. So I think it’s important that people get educated. I think that it’s important that people take a look at what Christian leaders are saying, those that they are following and understand like what you’ve just pointed out about Beth Moore, these leaders are not our savior.
[Heidi] That’s right.
[Bethany] We still have to look at what they’re saying and we have to use discernment. And we have to say, “Okay, what is the biblical truth that is lining up with what this human being is saying?” And then when we understand that, and I love that 7:14 is when you’re posting, because folks, we need to pray. We need to humble ourselves, and that needs to be the loudest voice. Because once we are equipped, then we can speak out, and you don’t have to wait until you know it all.
That’s not what I’m saying at all, but we want to be able to speak from a solid stance. And the Lord is just waiting. One of my favorite verses is second Corinthians 5:20. It says, “Therefore, folks, we’re Christ’s ambassadors. He’s making his appeal through us.” And so it is our job to know what God is saying so that we can say it. And then it goes on to say, “We implore you on Christ’s behalf. Be reconciled to God.” So as we reconcile our hearts to God in our prayer time, what will come, the fruit that will come, will be the voice that is missing in the culture.
[Heidi] It’s so important. And for people to say, “Father, what do you want me to say? I’m going to study Your Word.” As the apostle Paul said, “To be a workman who doesn’t need to be ashamed, who can rightly divide, rightly discern and rightly speak about God’s word.” And we have got an opportunity to do it in the culture. One more thing I’m going to say and I love to hear your thoughts on this. I have a feeling you and I are going to just agree like crazy on this.
But I’ve been talking to some of the younger people in my family, my niece in particular, a couple of my nieces who are both biracial and have been getting online. They’re conservative, but they’ve been talking the truth about Black Lives Matter, talking about what would happen to our nation if we defund the police. I’m about police reform. What we want to get rid of is bad police. We don’t want to get rid of the police.
[Bethany] Come on! No!
[Heidi] Can we just talk about what it is? I mean, there’s young, beautiful women in their mid-twenties and they’re just being crucified online right now. And I said to her this morning, I said, “Sweetheart, when you realize that people are coming to your page and they just want to argue with you, disengage. You don’t need to …” I think this is what wears people out.
Kathy Barnett would say, “You’re looking for the people that are sitting on the fence going, ‘I don’t know what to think.'” Those are the people that are going to listen to you. The ones who are not listening to you are going to be yelling and calling you names and hurling racial slurs at you no matter the color of your skin. And that’s when you shake the dust off your feet and you keep walking. What do you think?
[Bethany] Oh, 100%. we have to be able to discern. We have to be able to decipher. We have to be able to make a decision and be okay. Heidi and I are telling you listeners, it’s okay to disengage. It’s okay to create a healthy boundary. And I love the book Boundaries. But in one section of that book, he talks about this. It’s brilliant. He says, “You’re not talking about creating a stone wall that separates you from the world. You’re talking about a fence on your property with a gate. And you’re allowing folks in at times. And sometimes you allow them out. And sometimes those have been out that can come back in.” Folks, it’s okay to remain healthy. And if somebody is toxic, because like you said, it’s a fine line between having a disagreement and moving into a toxic relationship.
[Heidi] That’s right.
[Bethany] And so we have the power to say, “I’m going to be healthy because I have a message to bring. And it’s okay if I disengage with things that are becoming toxic.” And because the Lord tells us anything we do outside of love is like just a clanging gong or symbol. So we can even disengage in love. And we’re in a culture that says … we live in a culture that has redefined what it means to be tolerant.
Tolerant means that we kind of put up with each other. They’ve redefined it that says, “If you don’t agree with me, you hate me and that’s a crime.”
[Heidi] That’s right.
[Bethany] And so, as we are engaging on these platforms and social media, they are powerful places for the Lord to reach people we otherwise wouldn’t be able to. But they are also a place where the enemy can powerfully hit us at our knees and take us out. And so because we care about who we are and we understand that our identity in Christ means that he determined that we were born at this point in history. Therefore, there’s something about us that we have to just recognize the Lord wants us to bring to people. And so we have to be jealous over, in a good way, jealous over what God has placed in our hearts, because we are not effective if we crawl into a corner in the fetal position…
[Heidi] That’s right.
[Bethany] … because we’ve been beaten down. And so it is okay to create boundaries.
[Heidi] Yeah. And we need to, and I think for, especially for the young people who are just like, “Oh, I didn’t realize.” Okay, well now we know. And you know, too, when people go after you like they got … I think I posted a picture of myself in a Trump 2020 shirt the other day on my Facebook page. Just a little picture of me in a T-shirt. It has like, I don’t know, 17,000 likes on it now. And you should, just for fun, you should read the comments. It’s amazing.
It’s amazing. People are like, “You’re ugly.” “I hate your hair.” “Those are terrible glasses.” Because they can’t argue against Trump’s policies. They could argue about his personality all day long. But when they have no argument, they go straight for the person and straight for the personality. And I’m telling my kids, “Just say the thing and walk away. Because if you don’t, it’ll suck you in, it’ll break your heart. It’ll make you insecure, which is exactly what the adversary wants.”
The Bible teaches us there’s therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. So do the thing that God wants you to do. And it’s okay to disengage. You don’t have to have a … you’re not a doormat for Jesus. You don’t have to be a doormat. And I think it’s so important for people just to be aware of, the conversation’s important. If you can’t have a conversation with reasonable people, you can walk away. It’s actually okay.
[Bethany] It’s actually freedom.
[Heidi] It is freedom. I’m going to send people to Radiance, to the Radiant Foundation. Can you tell everybody really quick about what that is?
[Bethany] Sure. You can go to radiance.life and there you will find lots of information, articles, ways to get in touch with us. We keynote about 60 events a year. The Lord has us all different places. You could check out our videos and our heart is to do the research and create material that is digestible. So you can look at the material, our info sheets and understand the social issues in the context of God-given purpose, and be able to speak into these issues from a godly perspective.
So you’re welcome to check us out at radianced.life and lifehaspurpose.com is our weekly podcast. You’re welcome to check that out. We are also on any platform where a podcast is found. That’s Life Has Purpose, and come visit us.
[Heidi] I love it. So exciting.
[Bethany] Yes. We’ll have to get you on there soon. We’ll have to-
[Heidi] I know! This is really fun. Very cool. Well, Bethany, thank you so much for coming on. And Bethany, I appreciate your willingness to just talk about, we need to be talking, talk about the issues of the day and bring to light what does God say? What’s the role of a Christian in light of what’s happening in the culture right now? And then we can be encouraged because we know that God plus nobody equals a majority.
[Bethany] Come on.
[Heidi] And so as the Bible would say, “If the Lord is on your side, you’re on the winning side already.” We know that God’s going to win this thing. We’ve already read to the end of the book. And in the meantime, He’s calling us to stay faithful. And you and your sweet man have been doing that so beautifully for a long time. So thank you for that. I really appreciate it.
[Bethany] Oh. Well, we love you, Heidi. We’re grateful for your voice and that you don’t back down. So keep up the good work.
[Heidi] One of these times, I’m going to get over there and I’m going to cause all kinds of trouble with you. And I feel it in my bones.
[Bethany] I can’t wait, I can’t wait.
[Heidi] It’s going to be good. You guys, for more information, I’m going to link back to Bethany and Ryan Bomberger in the show notes today. So many websites, so many great things they’re doing, and I hope you guys will check it out and support what they’re doing.
Appreciate you guys listening and you know that the podcast is now five days a week. On Tuesdays and Thursdays, we’re doing a short devotional, but just try to keep you guys engaged throughout the ‘rona. So check it out. The Heidi St. John podcast Off the Bench is now airing five days a week. Thanks for listening everybody. And I’ll see you back here on Monday.